Vegas/Detroit

[Mike]

Vegas Trades......

Rickard Rakell
Michael Dipietro
Christian Dvorak
For
David Pastrnak
Eric Comrie
2018 3rd Entry

I accept

[Jeff - Red Wings]

I accept

[Derrick - Senators]

Speaking as a GM and only as a GM, this is one of the most underwhelming trades I have seen in the history of this league. I find it hard to believe there wasn't a better offer out there.

[Jeff - Red Wings]

I got 3 other offers and talk to everyone (including yourself) and I feel this is the best offer I got. If you don't like the trade well I guess you should have offered better to me. And honestly I'm sick and tired of GMs on here complaining about everything I do. If you don't like the way I run my team then feel free to take it from me.

[Derrick - Senators]

Both offers that I am aware of (including mine) were significantly better than the one you accepted. That is not me complaining, that is me stating my opinion. Only time will tell if that opinion becomes a fact.

Also, this trade is invalid and needs to be reworked because Vegas already traded it's 2018 3rd Round Entry Pick.

Jul 5, 2017 16:53:45 GMT -5 Mike said:

Vegas trades:
2017 3rd Entry
2018 3rd Entry
For Calgarys
2017 3rd Entry

I accept

[Jeff - Red Wings]

Well thanks for giving your opinion but I don't agree with it

[Tyler - Jets]

Detroit is trading their 3rd round entry not Vegas.

[Tyler - Jets]

I don't think this is lopsided at all Rakell scored 33 goals last season Dvorak is a proven NHLer on an improving team. Dipietro and Comrie are nearly a wash because you never know 100% if a goalie prospect will become an everyday starter. I can't speak to other offers but this seems fair to me.

[Derrick - Senators]

Aug 10, 2017 16:21:51 GMT -5 Tyler - Jets said:

Detroit is trading their 3rd round entry not Vegas.

Yeah I know. I was just giving Detroit an out. Figured maybe it was a drunken trade or something.

Just kidding.

[Mike]

Because you didn't like the trade my warning level rises??

[Derrick - Senators]

Aug 10, 2017 16:54:05 GMT -5 Mike said:

Because you didn't like the trade my warning level rises??

I think the trade is lopsided in value, I love the trade for you personally.

Your warning level rose because I mistakenly thought you traded a pick twice. The issue has been resolved.

[Mike]

Gotcha that's what I figured but still had to ask.
Honestly giving up Dvorak was tough, I saw him play all his years of junior and what he did last half of the season last year I think he's going to have a really good season/career. He could come back to hurt me giving him up.

[Derrick - Senators]

Aug 10, 2017 16:27:10 GMT -5 Tyler - Jets said:

I don't think this is lopsided at all Rakell scored 33 goals last season Dvorak is a proven NHLer on an improving team. Dipietro and Comrie are nearly a wash because you never know 100% if a goalie prospect will become an everyday starter. I can't speak to other offers but this seems fair to me.

Sure. Rakell scored 33 goals with an absurd scoring percentage of almost 19%. There is NO WAY he repeats at that pace. I will take any bet anyone wants to propose on that. As an avid Anaheim fan by default (I owned Lindholm, Vatanen and currently own Getzlaf, Perry, Montour and Gibson), I can tell you that most of Rakell's points last season were situational, not because of talent. Rakell is a fringe keeper one-trick pony that provides no peripheral support fantasy wise who scored points last season by being opportunistic. This is of course in stark contrast to Pastrnak who is 3 years younger, scores at a reasonable 11-14% rate (career) and is a legitimate game changing forward. You can't judge a player by pulling up a couple of stat sheets, you have to take everything into consideration, namely talent.

As for Dipietro/Comrie. Comrie is miles ahead of Dipietro and by all accounts is on track to be the next starting goaltender and future for the Winnipeg Jets (as indicated by the team only offering Hellebuyck a one year deal). Dipietro is super young, but his talent level is suspect and there is zero indication that he will ever play a game in the NHL especially since he has stiff competition in Markstrom and Demko ahead of him. I don't have any hard line numbers to back this up because it is all speculation. Speculation as it may be, not all speculation is equal in terms of analysis. And not that it matters, but I kind of consider myself a goalie "expert." I have been drafting/signing/"developing"/rostering numerous starting goalies (Rinne, Bobrovsky, Talbot, Raanta, Rask, Gibson, Hiller, Backstrom, Pavelec, Niemi, Neuvirth, Leclaire, Elliott, Bishop, Theodore) for a decade now.


With that said, it is my opinion that this is a terrible, terrible trade. Can't wait to see how it plays out. For the sake of the league, I hope I am wrong.

[Chris - Capitals]

My offer was significantly better than this. But if you decided to go the other way that's on you I do feel my offer was quite a bit better

[Derrick - Senators]

Aug 10, 2017 21:22:12 GMT -5 Chris - Capitals said:

My offer was significantly better than this. But if you decided to go the other way that's on you I do feel my offer was quite a bit better

Oh, you too?

I offered Antti Raanta, Tyson Jost, and Kyle Okposo AS A STARTING POINT, or in other words a 26 year old starting goaltender (the most valuable commodity in our format), an elite prospect, and a 55-60 point forward in his prime for Pastrnak ALONE and it was passed over without a counter for this. Classic.

[Chris - Capitals]

I offered zetterberg/kreider, markstrom, nurse/Reinhart, kapanen as my starter

[Nos - Sharks]

I'm kind of surprised the reaction has been this strong. Derrick gives some solid info but also some terrible speculative info that is just plain wrong and/or misinformed. Namely that Rakell is a flash in the pan player. He's really good, I dropped him thinking most of the league would overlook him, like Derrick, and that I could regain him for a bargain. It didn't happen that way. He was picked up and kept, a stunning move. He scored 33 goals, 10 more than the next highest player on the team, his points per game average is second only to Getzlaf. Most impressive to me is his steady progression and incline on the stat sheet through his first few years. This shows me he can not only improve and learn, but also adapt and utilize teammates positively.

Rakell is signed to a pretty hefty, and lengthy, contract for his age. One that shows the team has confidence in him being a significant piece of their Top 6 core moving forward. Pastrnak has yet to sign with Boston. Both Rakell & Pastrnak were similarly ranked and drafted. Pastrnak doesn't show the type of progression Rakell has shown, he had a couple of decent seasons and then this massive one this past season. Why is that? It could be because he was playing with a Top 5 scorer in the league and had #1 PP time, something Rakell did not have and yet still put up 17 PPP. Pastrnak is a solid player, what I'm attempting to illustrate are some of the variables to consider, that Rakell is no slouch. They're actually pretty comparable. I'm surprised Derrick claims Rakell has a lack of talent, for someone who is supposed to follow the team closely, his most impressive attributes are his skill set and creativity.

Rakell is bad in the faceoff circle but he doesn't take as many draws anymore, he could improve quite a bit defensively but that isn't necessary to his game as long as he's not a liability. He sometimes holds onto the puck way too long when the play could be pushed forward, opened up, or changed with a simple pass. All of Rakell's peripheral stats are right in the wheelhouse of where they need to be aside from PIM. Not sure why Derrick claims otherwise? Rakell had 10 GWG, good for first in the league. He put those 33 goals to good use, pretty clutch. Will he sustain his shooting percentage? Absolutely not, it's not possible, so what does this mean? He needs to shoot the puck more often, take another step forward and earn more first line, #1 PP time.

Analyzing the rest of the trade, I don't know where Derrick's mind is sometimes. How do you get Eric Comrie is the anointed one because Hellebuyck signed a 1-year deal? Hellebuyck signing a 1-year deal is likely because he wanted it that way and believes in himself. The Jets likely wanted to sign him to a 2-year deal for less money. Probably 2-years at $2 million per, taking him to 1 year left as an RFA. Instead he took $2.25 million and banked on himself being able to play well enough and impress management enough to get a better, longer term, deal. The 2-year Mason signing was an obvious bridge gap to see what they have with Hellebuyck, having 1 year left as an RFA when the Mason deal is up.

Eric Comrie sucks. He'll have a hard time making the NHL, nevermind being a starter. Hellebuyck is bigger, more athletic, and has always had the better career and pedigree. Hellebuyck has outperformed Comrie at every level, his NHL numbers were better than Comrie's AHL numbers last season. I don't get it? Dipietro is a project, he won't do anything significant for at least 5 years, he is behind some talent, namely Demko but a lot can happen, a lot can change, in those 5 years. Dipietro is a much better piece than Comrie. Dvorak is a solid piece also, he had a nice season, this upcoming season will say a lot about where he fits into the lineup and how much he can produce, certainly better than a 3rd Round Entry pick. So overall? A meh trade.

Onto analyzing these other offers quickly, neither of you offered any keeper caliber player? An insult. I'm not too high on Raanta to start with and he's the Arizona goalie now? Yikes. Okposo is a fine player, I like him a lot, a waiver pick player though, also some scary health issues surrounding him, I wish him the best. Jost is a nice prospect, potential blue chipper but I'm weary of his path. Chris' offer is even worse, not a big fan of it. It's basically a Waiver pick, an iffy goalie on a bad team that will be usurped eventually by a superior goalie, a choice between two prospect defensemen who will never put up significant fantasy numbers or be roster-able players and a solid prospect. Not going to cut it I'm afraid.

Having said all that, phew, Jeff - Red Wings did not do his job. These were starting offers, evidenced by each manager stating as such. That means Jeff had at least 3 managers interested in the player! I'll state that I was also interested and messaged Jeff asking what he'd like for the player. I received no response from Jeff to my inquiry. 4 managers interested in the player! Come on, major value left on the table and a lost opportunity. My advice is this, talk to everybody that shows interest. Always. Pitch ideas back and forth, play off of managers, squeeze the value, every last drop, ultimately do some work.

[Derrick - Senators]

Rakell was able to score that many goals because of injuries namely Perry who was nursing an (unconfirmed) injury most of the season. Rakell also very rarely was on the ice for a defensive zone face off. This doesn't show progression but rather that his increase in points is due to situational change and being sheltered due to his inability to play defense or anything on offense other than wait around waiting for a breakout pass and/or attempting to do too much causing turnovers a la Rick Nash in his early years. Rakell is a 2nd Line player who is able to move up the lineup if necessary and a fringe keeper in our league as you confirmed. Ironic you should mention that neither Chris or I offered up a keeper because the offer that was accepted didn't include a keeper. Care to wager a 1st Round Entry pick on who scores more points? I'll take Okposo if you want Rakell.

As for Hellebuyck, I like him. I think he has all the potential in the world but his mental game is off and he lacks consistency. The fact that he had to file for arbitration means something isn't there on one or both of the sides negotiating a deal. It's not an ideal situation. He either has a sub-par year and Winnipeg let's him walk or he "breaks out" and goes to the highest bidder which likely won't be Winnipeg with 8-9 RFA's this coming summer. Either way, I think the plan is to roll the dice and develop Comrie behind Mason.

Regardless of how you feel about the value of what I was offering, it was a starting point. Not to mention that a non-tandem starting goalie who will likely play 50+ games in this league is much more valuable than any 60 point forward, or any prospect that isn't considered elite (Supply and demand and the fact that goalie categories are 1/3 of all scoring dictated by 2-3 roster spots). Factor in that Raanta is still fairly young and is on an "up and coming team," to make matters worse. But of course I'm not telling you anything you don't already know and what's done is done so I'll won't waste my breath.

[Tyler - Jets]

Everyone hold on one minute...... Did Nos just defend Jeff?? Lol how the world turns.

[Tyler - Jets]

I guess he did and didn't lol. You guys are a great read in your battles over the years. Nos I am awaiting your response to Derrick. These back and forths actually help me to analyze players better.