|
|
Post by Derrick - Senators on Aug 12, 2015 22:18:54 GMT -5
Per Section 13 of the Rulebook: nafhl2.proboards.com/thread/892/new-rulebook-2013Per the 2015 Official Keeper Submission thread: St. Louis Blues KeepersJohn Tavares (A)Jaden Schwartz Alex Galchenyuk Max Pacioretty (C) James Van Riemsdyk Patrick Kane Brandon Saad Erik Karlsson (A) Roberto Luongo Carey Price Peoria Rivermen (18/19)Anton Khudobin (28/57)** Karri Ramo (27/88)** Devante Smith-Pelley (22/129)* Teuvo Teravainen (19/3)* John Klingberg (22/0)* Valeri Nichushkin (19/79)* Sean Monahan (19/75)* Ondrej Palat (23/95)* Tyler Toffoli (22/72)* Teemu Pulkkinen (22/3)* Brett Ritchie (20/0)* Reto Berra (27/31)** Alex Chiasson (23/86)* Alex Stalock (26/27)** Alex Killorn (24/120)* Alexander Salak (27/2)** Stefan Elliott (23/58)* Dmitri Orlov (22/119)* Kalamazoo Wings (9/10)Marko Dano (19/0)*Pavel Buchnevich (19/0)* Robert Hagg (19/0)* Joshua Ho-sang (18/0)* Anthony Deangelo (18/0)* Ivan Barbashev (18/0)* Martin Frk (20/0)* Marek Hrivik (22/0)* Madison Bowey (19/0)* [/b] Per the Official Farm Team Update thread: Peoria Rivermen (19/19)
Anton Khudobin (28/91)** Karri Ramo (27/122)** Devante Smith-Pelley (22/149)* Teuvo Teravainen (19/37)* John Klingberg (22/65)* Valeri Nichushkin (19/87)* Sean Monahan (19/156)* Ondrej Palat (23/170)* Tyler Toffoli (22/148)* Teemu Pulkkinen (22/34)* Brett Ritchie (20/31)* Reto Berra (27/50)** Alex Chiasson (23/162)* Alex Stalock (26/49)** Alex Killorn (24/191)* Alexander Salak (27/2)** Stefan Elliott (23/63)* Dmitri Orlov (22/119)* Marko Dano (19/35)*Kalamazoo Wings (8/10)Pavel Buchnevich (19/0)* Robert Hagg (19/0)* Joshua Ho-sang (18/0)* Anthony Deangelo (18/0)* Ivan Barbashev (18/0)* Martin Frk (20/0)* Marek Hrivik (22/0)* Madison Bowey (19/0)* (sorry for it being late) Unavailable Players List nafhl2.proboards.com/thread/767/2014-2015-unavailable-playersPer Colorada/St. Louis trade thread: St. Louis agrees to pay the King's ransom of Ondrej Palat, Teuvo Teravainen, Mitch Marner, Marko Dano, 2016 1st Rd entry, 2015 2nd Rd waiver To Colorado For Vladimir Tarasenko, 2016 2nd Rd entry, 2015 4th Rd waiver I agree to this madness ;-) Per Private Message: Currently rostered in juniors having played 25 regular season games by now. Now listed under STL AHL roster with 35 games played. Is this guy available to draft the same as couple guys were last time around? He shouldn't be listed on St. Louis' official roster whereas I removed him earlier this morning from both the team page and unavailable players list. Dano is available to be drafted. Marko Dano Yahoo Sports Game Log: ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/6006/ The above illustrates the timeline in which Marko Dano was illegally rostered by the St. Louis Blues on it's "farm-farm team" on and well before June 1st. This is evidenced by the private messages (March 21 - July 2), and the keeper submission (May 27) by the St. Louis Blues that shows Dano illegally rostered, and subsequently the farm team update (July 1) in which the Blues attempted to add Dano to the farm team after Dano had been removed after which Dano was then illegally traded (July 14) to the Colorado Avalanche. Two issues arise from this and need to be resolved in a timely manner: 1.) The July 14 St. Louis/Colorado Trade needs to be modified to exclude Dano. If no resolution can be had the trade will be reversed. 2.) Deciding what punishment is appropriate for the St. Louis Blues who blatantly tried to undermine the rules and spirit of fair play on multiple occasions. |
|
|
|
Post by Derrick - Senators on Aug 12, 2015 22:22:22 GMT -5
I should also note that it is and was entirely my fault that the trade was processed and allowed to go through, so I apologize to the league, and particularly the Colorado Avalanche who will suffer most from this. However, an oversight is no excuse for a GM to egregiously attempt to cheat (and in this case succeed) the system on multiple occasions.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nos - Sharks on Aug 12, 2015 23:40:54 GMT -5
Let me hear Richard of the Blues speak!
|
|
|
|
Post by Tyler - Jets on Aug 13, 2015 1:19:24 GMT -5
I agree let's hear from St. Louis but this looks pretty clear. St. Louis and Colorado should agree on compensation to complete the trade from earlier. Rob Flames was very quick to rectify his minor oversight in our trade recently and this should be able to be resolved in a similar manor.
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard - Blues on Aug 13, 2015 7:05:18 GMT -5
i apologize. it was an oversight, just as our COMMISH made an oversight, I will do whatever I need (within reason) to make sure that the deal with COL gets fixed. also, i didn't knowingly "cheat" the system (let alone multiple times)... I also ask that this stupid thread be removed, it makes a very distasteful claim about my character which is concerning to me because this speaks to something a lot bigger than just fantasy sports. I do this for fun, I like being competitive and active, but ultimately I don't know any of you, I have never met any of you and you with me. While I would be the first to admit that I am not a perfect person, I do try my best to be a good citizen and moral person. I would never devise plans to cheat any system. This is hardly a scandal, as all it would have taken was a message from someone that noticed it early on to say you have to drop him or move him. It would be a scandal if I was belligerent about it, but I am not. Again, I have no problem with remedying this, however the claims written are ludicrous and insulting on a level far greater than fantasy sports.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tyler - Jets on Aug 13, 2015 9:00:58 GMT -5
If you fix the deal with Colorado I am fine. Seems like a mistake to me and I don't feel St. Louis or any of us for that matter make decisions with malicious intent. This is the best set of GM's we have had since I joined the league. We all compete hard but no one is a cheater
|
|
Mike
Second Liner
50%
Posts: 297 
|
Post by Mike on Aug 13, 2015 10:22:15 GMT -5
We can all agree a couple mistakes were made, in my opinion easiest way to solve this is keep the trade and everything as is and as punishment St.Louis simply forfeits a couple draft picks or something the following season. Most "real" leagues that is how teams are punished(since obviously a fine $ isn't something that can be done) , this seems to me the simplest way to have things settled and our league can move on and finish our draft and prepare for the 2015-2016 season.
|
|
|
|
Post by Derrick - Senators on Aug 13, 2015 17:50:49 GMT -5
We can all agree a couple mistakes were made, in my opinion easiest way to solve this is keep the trade and everything as is and as punishment St.Louis simply forfeits a couple draft picks or something the following season. Most "real" leagues that is how teams are punished(since obviously a fine $ isn't something that can be done) , this seems to me the simplest way to have things settled and our league can move on and finish our draft and prepare for the 2015-2016 season. It is not as simple as just "keeping the trade as is." What about the unfair advantage Richard had last year by essentially having 20 farm roster slots? What about the player I would have to re-select in the waiver draft? (my back up pick was selected after I chose Dano). What about the message it sends to the league? (it's okay to break rules). Rules were clearly broken and they were broken multiple times. As a GM, it is your responsibility to know and understand the rules that govern the league. If something is unclear I have and will always gone out of my way to clarify. Yes there was an oversight on my behalf but I caught it relatively quickly and on the first go around. Not several months and several oversights later. The point being that the rules are in place so I don't have to be a babysitter. I would rather focus my efforts on improving the league than micromanaging GM's. One oversight by me (who is responsible for the administration of the league, my team, and 11 others) that had no bearing on my team is in no way comparable to multiple oversights by one GM who only has to worry about his or her own team who clearly understood the rules that governed the farm teams (and that had a vested interest in the oversight). I find it hard to believe that Richard didn't know about the rule in question (malicious or not). Slotting Dano onto the farm in the Official Farm Update Thread (without posting a call up in the farm transaction thread from the farm farm team) AFTER he was listed on the farm farm team on the Official Keeper Selection indicates that Richard was aware Dano was in violation (and had been for some time). There is literally no other reason to make this change. Then less than two weeks later Dano was traded. That's not a coincidence and clearly shows an understanding of the rule that is now claimed to be an oversight. My intention with this post (and my previous post) was not to call blacken your character Richard. You are a good GM and have always been a stand up guy. If you are offended I apologize. But as far as I can tell, this was more than just an "oversight" and things like this simply can not exist in this league. Even if there wasn't malicious intent, the issue still exists and everything that has occurred has and is in violation of one of the leagues rules, and that demands resolution in a fair and just way. The rule book states that if a player is found in violation of prospect/minor leaguer status, that player will be released to free agency and eligible to be drafted in the summers drafts. I don't think anyone can't dispute that fact. The only questions that remain are how to restructure the deal and IF the league deems there was malicious intent, what the punishment should be (if anything). |
|
|
|
Post by Tyler - Jets on Aug 13, 2015 17:56:56 GMT -5
In my opinion Ottawa gets Dano and its St. Louis responsibility for making such an oversight to rectify the situation with Mike Colorado. The minute Dano stepped on the ice for game 11 he was lost to conditional waivers and should never have been traded.
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard - Blues on Aug 13, 2015 20:11:30 GMT -5
Listen, I really enjoy this league, I feel as though it is competitive and everyone is super friendly... I don't want to cause any problems so I'm good with what ever the repercussions are.
|
|
|
|
Post by Robyn - Flames on Aug 13, 2015 21:00:14 GMT -5
I'm surprised that both Derrick AND the anonymous GM that sent the PMs in regards to Dano didn't notice when he was traded to Colorado...But obviously just an oversight.
So, the events can be summarized as follows:
1. St Louis submits keeper list with Dano on the farm farm team (without knowing Dano was ineligible -- he could have put him right onto farm if he did know at this point).
2. St Louis then updates age/games played for his roster and notices the ineligibility of Dano.
3. St Louis moved Dano from the farm farm to the farm team (without posting a farm transaction, as per usual course for this type of transaction) because he knew he was ineligible for farm farm.
4. St Louis then includes Dano in a trade to Colorado.
While I don't know if I would use the word malicious, St Louis had to of been aware he was doing something against the rules here with his actions. Richard you're welcome to correct me if I'm wrong here, but was this not the point (when looking at gp) you realized Dano was ineligible for the farm farm team?
You then subsequently traded him to Colorado knowing there were possible skeletons in the proverbial closet with him...
Dano is now property of the Ottawa Senators -- I don't think anyone is disputing this.
Next, the trade between St Louis and Colorado will need to be rectified. I think the league should bite the bullet on this one and just allow the trade to be corrected retroactively with a mutually agreed upon deal between Colorado and St Louis. The alternatives, as Derrick mentions above, just fuck up too many things for us to deal with.
Lastly, there needs to be some repercussions for Richard. I think we all agree that he is a valuable GM to the league and we all enjoy dealing with him. However, I don't see any explanation provided that would show Richard did all of this by accident, that is, not knowing he was hiding something with Dano. I do think it's more of an error in judgement rather than a malicious act designed to scam his fellow GMs.
As per a punishment, I think it should be minor (and also increase his warning level by at least 10%!). Perhaps forfeiting a 2nd or 3rd Rd waiver pick. If it happens again, we will increase the punishment drastically by making him hang with Nos for a whole weekend or something...
|
|
|
|
Post by Nos - Sharks on Aug 13, 2015 21:21:15 GMT -5
^ Pretty funny Robyn, you should work that bit into your act.
|
|
Mike
Second Liner
50%
Posts: 297
|
Post by Mike on Aug 13, 2015 23:23:56 GMT -5
One of the things I'm having a problem with in all of this is that Derrick is the one who comes out good in this all, even though he processed this trade, put him on my farm team for a month then gets to have him on his roster. If he knew previously about this all and this all goes through with nothing at all said then all of a sudden he drafts him, just kinda of bugging me feel it was a big error on his part as well commish sorry for this but feel I need to call that out a bit as well and it seems it's getting all thrown on Richard which yes he made a mistake but commish made a big one to.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nos - Sharks on Aug 13, 2015 23:57:59 GMT -5
One of the things I'm having a problem with in all of this is that Derrick is the one who comes out good in this all, even though he processed this trade, put him on my farm team for a month then gets to have him on his roster. If he knew previously about this all and this all goes through with nothing at all said then all of a sudden he drafts him, just kinda of bugging me feel it was a big error on his part as well commish sorry for this but feel I need to call that out a bit as well and it seems it's getting all thrown on Richard which yes he made a mistake but commish made a big one to. Well, technically all of this information was available for any GM to sniff out, Dano was Waiver Draft eligible, whether Derrick knew or not makes no difference. I admit that I thought Dano was owned, seeing him on the Unavailable Players List, so I stayed away from him from the start but the information was out there, it was my own fault that I didn't know this and a savvy GM picked up on it and capitalized. The only issue was with the trade, Richard traded an asset he didn't own, Derrick probably didn't recognize this right away and processed the trade but later while combing through his extensive players lists, found Dano on it, and drafted him. |
|
|
|
Post by Derrick - Senators on Aug 14, 2015 0:15:16 GMT -5
One of the things I'm having a problem with in all of this is that Derrick is the one who comes out good in this all, even though he processed this trade, put him on my farm team for a month then gets to have him on his roster. If he knew previously about this all and this all goes through with nothing at all said then all of a sudden he drafts him, just kinda of bugging me feel it was a big error on his part as well commish sorry for this but feel I need to call that out a bit as well and it seems it's getting all thrown on Richard which yes he made a mistake but commish made a big one to. Well, technically all of this information was available for any GM to sniff out, Dano was Waiver Draft eligible, whether Derrick knew or not makes no difference. I admit that I thought Dano was owned, seeing him on the Unavailable Players List, so I stayed away from him from the start but the information was out there, it was my own fault that I didn't know this and a savvy GM picked up on it and capitalized. The only issue was with the trade, Richard traded an asset he didn't own, Derrick probably didn't recognize this right away and processed the trade but later while combing through his extensive players lists, found Dano on it, and drafted him. Dano is not and has not been on the unavailable players list since March (as indicated by the private messages). I just forget to remove him from the Blues roster until later. |
|
|
|
Post by Nos - Sharks on Aug 14, 2015 0:28:58 GMT -5
My bad, thought I saw him there, it was on the team page, the trade was somewhat fresh in my mind as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by Derrick - Senators on Aug 14, 2015 0:35:58 GMT -5
One of the things I'm having a problem with in all of this is that Derrick is the one who comes out good in this all, even though he processed this trade, put him on my farm team for a month then gets to have him on his roster. If he knew previously about this all and this all goes through with nothing at all said then all of a sudden he drafts him, just kinda of bugging me feel it was a big error on his part as well commish sorry for this but feel I need to call that out a bit as well and it seems it's getting all thrown on Richard which yes he made a mistake but commish made a big one to. So let me get this straight. It's MY fault that Richard let Dano's farm-farm eligibility expire? Moved him to his farm team post keeper submission? And then traded him to you? As I mentioned in my previous post, Dano has not been on the unavailable players list since March. I come out "good" in this because 1.) a concerned GM and 2.) Because I spend hours of time updating the teams and combing through the age and games played information of all of the players. You are welcome to do the same. You might recall the "lull" at the beginning of the summer. There wasn't much league activity and I wasn't updating the site as regularly. This was due to a host of unexpected and hectic events that left me with very limited free time and without regular internet access for a period of time. The trade was processed then and was done so admittedly without the precision and attention updates are usually paid. It was more to keep the site afloat until I could resolve the personal issues. I don't owe you an explanation, but I'm choosing to provide one as an apology for the "lull" and for the processing of the trade. However, the fact that I processed the trade has nothing to do with anything. It was an error. It happens. I don't ask to be pat on the back for the dozen of other trades processed correctly or praised for the thousands of updates I have made error free. It was just as much my oversight as it was yours, and every other GM in the league because all of the information was there for everyone to see. |
|
|
|
Post by Nos - Sharks on Aug 14, 2015 0:40:03 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard - Blues on Aug 14, 2015 9:08:32 GMT -5
Again, I apologize for the problems that have stemmed from this. I didn't do anything with any devious intentions (including trading Dano, to be honest I thought he was the piece with least consequence)... but I take responsibility and accept whatever repercussions... Mike and I are in negotiations to make it right. Sorry.
|
|
St. Louis Blues Keepers
So exciting.
You better make that pick or trade it! I'm excited to see if we can use up all the draft picks this year.