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Post by Derrick - Senators on Aug 12, 2023 1:23:35 GMT -5
Why are you making this comment? Bob has been a great GM and has made some very astute and ballsy moves. He also won the Playoff Pool in his first year. You're bringing uneasiness and negativity to the league. Why? We should be trying to bring productivity and positivity to the league. I'm honestly having a hard time understanding how someone who traded Semin, Eaves & Sanford for Joe Thornton can call for vetoes at all. Winning the playoff pool has very little to do with knowledge or fantasy hockey skill and almost everything to do with luck. I also don't consider Pastrnak for Batherson or Kopitar for O'Reilly or Dobson for Karlsson, Hyman, 1st Round Waiver to be "astute" or "ballsy." I find them to be completely uninformed and incredibly detrimental to the league. I also find repeated calls to "attack" past trades while trying to promote productively and positively to be extremely fake and hypocritical. Since you can't seem to stop referencing it, let me briefly explain to you why the Semin and Thornton trade is not even in the same realm as this one. Semin was a superstar in Russia prior to returning to the NHL where he proceeded to score at nearly a point per game while adding peripheral stats that Joe Thornton didn't, at a position where finding talent was much more scarce. Sillinger and Pinto are busted prospects that project as middle 6 players ONE OF WHICH WILL HAVE TO HAVE A KEEPER SLOT USED ON if Bob wants to keep him. Age is largely irrelevant in this league once a player starts playing games in the NHL because they only get 200 games of eligibility, regardless of if they have reached their potential at that time or not. Literally downgrading at every single position while moving DOWN in the first round of the most important draft of the summer is the definition of one-sided and something that will set the parity in the league back years. This is one of the worst, if not THE worst trade in league history. You mention uneasiness and negativity. However, you're failing to realize the source of that uneasiness and negativity. It is these seemingly constant veto-worthy, league-ruining, trades that are proposed and there is a common denominator between them all. Stay strong, you're doing a hell of a job! If by "doing a hell of a job" you mean completely dismantling a top-6 win-now team, destroying parity, ruining the league, and setting back the Kraken franchise years then yeah, sure. You can continue to spew rhetoric and gas up a new GM acting friendly so not to jeopardize any future veto-able trades for yourself, or you can look at the facts. And the facts are, prior/during trading the Kraken were 4-2-0 to start the year with the team I managed/drafted and went 5-12-1 to finish the year, getting swept in the playoffs with the team post-trades. Hell of a job! Reply and continue discussion on this if you would like, but this will be my only post addressing the issue. Trades like these completely ruin the league and destroy the parity that we have tried to achieve over the past two decades. I have very little interest in trying to compete this season as it is an uphill battle and a waste of time. I would not blame any of you for feeling the same way. Honest hard-working approaches are not rewarded. It is extremely exhausting to constantly have to veto terrible trades or try to justify why they are detrimental to the league on account of self-serving motives. For those reasons, I will continue updating the league as usual and setting my lineup, but will not entertain any trades and only make the necessary roster moves for the duration of this season. Good luck guys. Enjoy! |
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Aug 12, 2023 6:21:43 GMT -5
Winning the playoff pool has very little to do with knowledge or fantasy hockey skill and almost everything to do with luck. Luck? There's no such thing as luck, you know this too. I also don't consider Pastrnak for Batherson or Kopitar for O'Reilly or Dobson for Karlsson, Hyman, 1st Round Waiver to be "astute" or "ballsy." I find them to be completely uninformed and incredibly detrimental to the league. This is your opinion though, opinions differ. You're leaving out many players when you mention these trades as well, you also add a trade in there that was never processed. What about Cozens & Petrov for Marchand? I also find repeated calls to "attack" past trades while trying to promote productively and positively to be extremely fake and hypocritical. I'm not attacking the trade. I'm mentioning it as something that has happened in the league. A couple of sub 30-point players at the time and a backup goalie for Hall of Famer Joe Thornton who was playing like Hall of Famer Joe Thornton. I mention what had happened at that time because that's all we knew when the trade was made. It shows that a big player was traded for unknown quantities and much more unknown than Noah Dobson. Since you can't seem to stop referencing it, let me briefly explain to you why the Semin and Thornton trade is not even in the same realm as this one. Semin was a superstar in Russia prior to returning to the NHL where he proceeded to score at nearly a point per game while adding peripheral stats that Joe Thornton didn't, at a position where finding talent was much more scarce. There are plenty of players who are superstars in Russia that don't translate to the NHL though, it's actually rare for one to work out. All we can go by when referencing that trade is what we knew at that point in time and Semin was nobody relevant yet and certainly not to the level of acquiring a 125 point Joe Thornton, wouldn't you agree? Semin also demonstrated himself to be a flight risk. Sillinger and Pinto are busted prospects that project as middle 6 players ONE OF WHICH WILL HAVE TO HAVE A KEEPER SLOT USED ON if Bob wants to keep him. This is another opinion of yours though, it isn't the truth, is it? Busted how? They've just dipped their toes in and Pinto showed great success in his first season scoring 20 goals and 35 points, showing more ability than the players you traded for Joe Thornton. Pinto is a free Keeper. Keeper slots are to be used, Bob had traded away two players he kept and added two younger ones with one free Keeper. It doesn't cause an imbalance with his Keeper situation. Age is largely irrelevant in this league once a player starts playing games in the NHL because they only get 200 games of eligibility, regardless of if they have reached their potential at that time or not. You're focusing on farm eligibility and not league longevity. Age is absolutely relevant and I'm confused how you can argue against that? A 23 year old Noah Dobson has 10 years on Erik Karlsson. 10 years of production. If you're referencing Sillinger, yes, if he doesn't make an impact next season he'd have to make a decision on if keeping him before he's become fully useful is a good or bad idea based on how you like the player but it isn't necessarily a bad move to keep a guy who isn't quite up to his potential yet in hopes he'll improve in the future (Stupid Laine). Literally downgrading at every single position while moving DOWN in the first round of the most important draft of the summer is the definition of one-sided and something that will set the parity in the league back years. That's a pretty overblown statement to me. Again, this is your opinion and it's totally okay to have that opinion. What isn't okay is pushing your opinions onto others telling them what's right to think and what's wrong to think. Other opinions are allowed. This is one of the worst, if not THE worst trade in league history. You mention uneasiness and negativity. However, you're failing to realize the source of that uneasiness and negativity. It is these seemingly constant veto-worthy, league-ruining, trades that are proposed and there is a common denominator between them all. Come on. Really? This ho-hummer? What is going on? This is like, an intriguing trade for both sides, it's nowhere near the worst trade in history. Your Thornton trade is way worse. Waaay worse, and I don't even mind that one either. Took a shot, long shot, way longer of a shot than this trade, and it failed. Oh well. From where I'm sitting the source of the uneasiness and negativity is with you because you're really being constantly angry, insulting and acting like a dictator. If anything at all is ruining the league it's that kind of attitude. Let me ask you this, if this trade were made last off-season, if it could have been made, would you have the same opinion? Dobson scoring 50 points as a 22 year old, Sillinger killing it his rookie season and Pinto scoring over a PPG in college vs. a dropped Karlsson who wasn't even redrafted in the 1st Round, passed over by you yourself not once but twice before he was selected and a topped out at 54 points at age 30 Zach Hyman? Are you really telling me one year changes everything so drastically? You've gotta look at least at the last 3 seasons, really 3 to 5 seasons including developmental years to get an accurate picture of things. If by "doing a hell of a job" you mean completely dismantling a top-6 win-now team, destroying parity, ruining the league, and setting back the Kraken franchise years then yeah, sure. You can continue to spew rhetoric and gas up a new GM acting friendly so not to jeopardize any future veto-able trades for yourself, or you can look at the facts. And the facts are, prior/during trading the Kraken were 4-2-0 to start the year with the team I managed/drafted and went 5-12-1 to finish the year, getting swept in the playoffs with the team post-trades. Hell of a job! See this is actually potentially one of the problems with you drafting for vacant teams, you appear to be getting too close to the team so when somebody else comes in and does things differently than you would you feel like things aren't optimal but every manager thinks and manages differently. You might think that team was a Top-6 win-now team but was it? I don't think so. In 2021 the Kraken finished in 10th Place. That team needed work, to be reworked, to get younger, improve and bide time for a window to open. Destroying parity? Ruining the league? Setting back the franchise? What? This is such an overblown opinion. You're also using such a small sample size (6 Weeks) to illustrate 'early success' and then using 3x the amount to criticize Bob when Bob was focused on shaping the team in his way and the outcome of the season was hardly on him, he didn't even draft the team. Bob wasn't even allowed a full season before being unjustly criticized. That's unbelievable. Reply and continue discussion on this if you would like, but this will be my only post addressing the issue. Trades like these completely ruin the league and destroy the parity that we have tried to achieve over the past two decades. I have very little interest in trying to compete this season as it is an uphill battle and a waste of time. I would not blame any of you for feeling the same way. Honest hard-working approaches are not rewarded. It is extremely exhausting to constantly have to veto terrible trades or try to justify why they are detrimental to the league on account of self-serving motives. For those reasons, I will continue updating the league as usual and setting my lineup, but will not entertain any trades and only make the necessary roster moves for the duration of this season. Good luck guys. Enjoy! We can talk can't we? Why do you have this defeatist attitude? You had this attitude before and blamed it on Covid and now it's terrible trades? What terrible trades? Seriously? There have been just...trades. Joe Thornton man, Joe Thornton, for real. You can make trades, just gotta talk to people, it's always an uphill battle for everybody. Trading is an aspect of the game. A hard working aspect. Are you upset at people who draft better than you? Or find diamonds in the FA rough? You've gotta find a way to put it all together and improve with each passing season or, indeed, you'll be left in the dust by superior hockey minds. This is a terrible attitude to have and has honestly put such a damper on an otherwise exciting off-season. I'm sorry Bob, I really am, sorry to see you go like this, it's a real bummer man, if you're reading this, I know you're a good dude with an interesting take on things. Keep loving hockey and you'll do great in other leagues for sure! Derrick, I don't know if this means you're quitting on the league or what but it sure seems like it and God I hope that's not true. You've got a great team and shouldn't feel so down and out and I have no idea why you feel that way. Literally no clue. Bad trades? Come on, now this next bit isn't meant to be seen as a negative at all so don't take it that way, it shows an aspect of fantasy managing skill where you've received a ton of talent from 'bad trades' including the Thornton one, the Hintz for Lankinen/Chychrun trade, the Kyrou for DeSmith/Jost trade, the Saros for Vesey trade, the Sebastian Aho for Talbot/Nilsson trade, the Marchand for Bozak/Gardiner trade, the Kopitar/Rinne/1st Waiver for Heatley/Backstrom (G)/Grabner trade, and the Rask for Irving trade. Make no mistake about it, you've gotten your fair share of top talent through 'bad trades' yourself, maybe even more than your fair share. 'Bad trades' don't really factor into how well your team is doing, rather, what you're feeling is likely to do with your lackluster drafting/farm teams, or the way you trade away a lot of your Entry picks often times at the deadline for a rental. Bad trades? I just don't get it man, I've got very few players on my team through trades so I just don't buy it and like I said before trading is an aspect of the game. It's like landing on the Go To Jail space in Monopoly and being pissed off about it but instead of flipping the board over and ruining the game for everybody most people will just stick it out and you know what? They'll get the fuck out of jail eventually and continue on! It's an aspect of the game! Lower teams or bubble teams improve in the exact same ways as real NHL teams and it certainly can take time. Less time if you're smart, bold and know when to trade ageing stars to playoff teams for picks, youth and depth. That is the way. Nobody should feel like they're down and out because you never are, nobody is, if you're lower down that just means you've gotta improve and absolutely everybody can improve. Even through the negative shit, stay positive! |
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Post by Colin - Avalanche on Aug 12, 2023 10:06:56 GMT -5
I don't really like the trade. It's mind boggling how one side trades the 2 best players in the deal including one scoring literally double his positional peer and also downgrades in player pick. Yes Karlsson should regress regardless of what team he's on. But he seems finally healthy and a healthy Karlsson is a game changer. Not being able to trade him a year ago doesn't factor into this trade. Hyman on Edm is a 70 point floor. Dobson is promising in his role but he's on an offensively dead team and there's a 50/50 chance he maxes out at 50 points as he hits 60 or more. And is most likely replaceable in waiver draft. Both prospects are likely irrelevant for fantasy. They will probably be better nhl players than fantasy guys However, despite how lopsided I think it is, I think it shouldn't be vetoed. Too much time has passed. Just make better trades I guess This is an interesting take but I believe it's lopsided itself in thinking. Reason being you're looking at everything that can go right for one side and everything that can go wrong on the other side instead of finding the truth somewhere in the middle. Make no mistake about it, Noah Dobson is the most valuable piece in the trade by a lot. 10 years is also a long time. Do you think the Islanders would trade Dobson for Karlsson? No way, uh uh. Did you see what he got traded for in real life? So you agree Karlsson will regress, that's obvious, like Chris - Capitals said everything was being funneled through him and the Sharks were likely making that their yearly goal to get him off the team and they were successful. He's finally healthy? Do you know if he'll stay healthy? Why doesn't his value a year ago factor into the trade? It's part of his value history and where it could return to seeing as its been there before just a season prior and he's aging. 70 point floor for Hyman? How did you come up with this number? Before last season his 3 best point total seasons were 54, 41 & 40. I'd say it's fairer to regard that as his ceiling moving forward. I get it, you have the mindset of 'what have you done for me lately' and that's a great mindset to have, it's the safest mindset to have but you're definitely gonna miss out on emerging talent and mistake elder players who have already put in their contributions to the game as superior vs. younger players who have yet to fully establish themselves. If that were the way things were it would be simple for everyone to construct a roster, next guy, next guy, next guy with nothing to actually think about. You also have to consider where a team is, is this team close to competing or not? Should you pivot your elder talent for younger talent that will help within the window you see for yourself? Again, I'm not sure where you're pulling your percentages from? 50/50 chance he maxes out at 50 points at age 23? Why? Players of that age never improve? Teams don't change? Players aren't traded? Both prospects are irrelevant? Why? Cole Sillinger is a 22 year old 6'2" beast who has shown exactly one season of struggle, last season, if you track his progress before that he has a great pedigree. Shane Pinto is also a 22 year old 6'2" beast who scored 20 goals and 35 points in his first NHL season. You know who else did something similar in his first season? Mikko Rantanen. Am I saying he's Mikko Rantanen? No, just illustrating that it's indeed mind boggling to write off players this young at that size scoring that many goals but hey, that's why we're here, talking about hockey rules! I'm looking at what I believe the players are and will be. Like you expressed in your post on the trade thread, you gave positive/hopeful reviews to all the pieces coming back to Bob. From Sillinger having an elite rookie season (it was solid, but he never showed anything before that as being an elite player, a good player worthy of 1st round pick? yes). His development clearly hit a block, and that's the information we have at hand. Also having played 124 nhl games already decreases his value significantly (As I'm reminded of by Daniel in all our negotiations lol, Not an insult Daniel I just like our banter!). He only has 1 more NHL season (76 games) to prove he's keeper worthy. I like Pinto as an nhl player but the odds he gets higher than a 3rd line centre is next to zero with Norris and Stutzle signed long term at big deals. So cool, 20 goals in his rookie season (when Norris was hurt) is great, but is it indicative of a big upwards tragectory? The safe bet is no. Hyman has cemented himself as a pp contributor and playing on McDavid's wing. I believe Hyman broke his seal for the kind of complimentary player he can be. A 70pt floor is 12 points less than what he scored. considering McDavid gets around 140 points, Draisaitl 125, predicting Hyman's floor is HALF or McDavid's isn't unreasonable to me. And I like Dobson, I love his game, he's a good goal scorer and is so consistent. I just don't agree that just because he's 23 he will grow into more points. I could see a 65/70 point career high where everything goes right, but on that team with how they play and their personnel. 50-60 seems par for the course. This is just how I see it, if you don't like it, that's fine we can disagree. But I'm making reasonable explanations. LOL, yes I think young players can't improve, teams cant change etc. Come on, those are ridiculous statements. I would say I'm more guilty of projecting players to increase their point totals, rather than a 'what have you done for me lately' approach. I just don't believe its with Pinto or Sillinger and to a lesser extent Dobson, despite liking him. Also I have no idea what their size has anything to do with their projectability. There have been notable players that have broken a point plateau late and stayed there, Pavelski and Marchand to name 2 off the top of my head. It's rare for sure. But no one else is playing with the 2 best players in the world every day, so if anyone can its the guy playing with those 2. I think where the trade goes even more off the rails is the pick swap. It is incredible non-sensical. If it was Bob getting the 11th and that's it, I can see that. You could draft a player to replace the value you lost, even a potential keeper if you draft right. But instead, somehow, the 4th overall was needed to make up some imaginary ground lost in youth? Especially in a draft where numerous people including you have been voicing how good the talent is. Even after all that I still voted no veto, though if it was brought up at the time of trade, I would've probably voted the other way. But whatever, It'll taste sweeter when I beat Daniel in our matchups  Well, damn, I see Bob is out now?? Now I don't know what to think. So now we have to find a new GM and have a crash course in the learning curve all over again. I would propose a trade probation period for new GMs, like say 3 months or however much time we think is needed to get a vibe of the league and how to value players based on the keeper and prospect rules in place. Because to be honest there is some predatory behaviour towards new GMs. I recall having multiple GMs inquire about Makar and a few making wildly lowball offers and trying to justify them to me. Imagine I made any of those trades, they would've been put up for veto immediately like the Pasta/Batherson one. Even a couple trades I still don't mind making today was probably undervalued because I didn't understand the values fully. Derrick, you did what you thought you had to do and I respect that. I really thought Bob learned from the Pasta/Batherson trade, and was willing to give him more time even after this trade but I feel bad we couldn't have given him a better understanding of the league before he went and made trades. I really don't know what this means for the trade or the league in general. I hope we can move past it and get excited for an awesome fantasy season! |
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Aug 12, 2023 10:18:52 GMT -5
If nobody is willing to make an offer for the same package I received then this is all unjust. Do you guys even want those two players? Seriously. Please make a better offer, I'd absolutely love to see it so we can all nitpick and analyze it in depth.
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Aug 12, 2023 10:30:18 GMT -5
Also, Derrick hasn't explained why it took him nearly a month to bring this trade up for a veto poll. Thinking a trade is a "joke" and ignoring it doesn't make sense to me.
9 other GMs had logged in multiple times, completed the Entry Draft, and nobody said even one small comment about the trade.
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Post by Colin - Avalanche on Aug 12, 2023 10:32:46 GMT -5
If nobody is willing to make an offer for the same package I received then this is all unjust. Do you guys even want those two players? Seriously. Please make a better offer, I'd absolutely love to see it so we can all nitpick and analyze it in depth. Useless exercise but let's have fun! Karlsson Hyman 1st round 4th overall waiver For McAvoy Buchnevich Dufour 3rd round 26th overall waiver I didn't say anything but I thought it was a dusty trade at the time. Discussed the trade with other GMs. Figured we'd have our usually bad trade discussion then move on. It didn't happen. Why I voted no it shouldn't be vetoed. Doesn't change what I think about it. I think Derrick put it through I see the rosters are changed. Hopefully we can move on |
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Post by Chris - Capitals on Aug 12, 2023 11:10:14 GMT -5
I'm in agreement that the waiver pick is off and leans it in Van. favor. I don't think the other pieces are really lopsided it's the pick that leans it for me. I still voted no veto and more of that has to do with the timing, not sure what the delay in bringing it up for debate was. I do feel like we may be on to something with a probation period but that's tough to do in that it restricts new managers from making any moves to mold the team to what they want.
Personally I wouldn't of put a package together for Karlsson simply because he to old for my window. He's going to regress he's NOT a 100pt player next year, So I don't value him as one. It was a magical everything went right for him season where he could play as a forward basically in San Jose. As for Hyman I don't think he continues to put up the numbers he did last year because I think Brown is going to eat into that McDavid spot and PP time.
I'd have alot less of a problem with the trade if it was
Dobson
Pinto
Sillinger
11th waiver
for
Karlsson
Hyman
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Aug 12, 2023 13:34:08 GMT -5
Just to be clear. I did not delete Bob or kick him out of the league. He chose to delete himself voluntarily and remove himself from the league without notice or any sort of dialogue. Likely due to all the “harassment.” I can’t imagine a world where deleting a manager would be my response to anything without following the guidelines for removal.
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Post by Colin - Avalanche on Aug 12, 2023 13:46:54 GMT -5
Just to be clear. I did not delete Bob or kick him out of the league. He chose to delete himself voluntarily and remove himself from the league without notice or any sort of dialogue. Likely due to all the “harassment.” I can’t imagine a world where deleting a manager would be my response to anything without following the guidelines for removal. That makes sense, I apologize for the assumption I should've asked what happened. |
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Aug 12, 2023 15:02:40 GMT -5
If nobody is willing to make an offer for the same package I received then this is all unjust. Do you guys even want those two players? Seriously. Please make a better offer, I'd absolutely love to see it so we can all nitpick and analyze it in depth. Useless exercise but let's have fun! Karlsson Hyman 1st round 4th overall waiver For McAvoy Buchnevich Dufour 3rd round 26th overall waiver I didn't say anything but I thought it was a dusty trade at the time. Discussed the trade with other GMs. Figured we'd have our usually bad trade discussion then move on. It didn't happen. Why I voted no it shouldn't be vetoed. Doesn't change what I think about it. I think Derrick put it through I see the rosters are changed. Hopefully we can move on It's not a useless exercise because if the league isn't even interested in these players who is anyone to deny a GM of the players they are seeking out. Now on to your Trade Offer! 🙂 Your package right off the bat is a combined 9 years older, doesn't work as well if a GM is looking to become younger. Noah Dobson > Charlie McAvoyThe only reason I'm even willing to trade Dobson in the first place is because of my defensive depth. I'm shocked more GMs haven't been knocking on my door for one of my young studs (this is most likely due to how D are scored in our format). I've obviously chosen to move forward with Dahlin/Heiskanen/Power as my tandem for the foreseeable future. I would not trade Dobson for McAvoy straight up. I understand everyone's opinion that the Islanders are not very offense orientated, but compared to the rest of the league the Islanders are at the very top of the bottom third of the league for goals scored last season. Are people going to avoid Moritz Seider because he was on a less offensive team last season than the Islanders. I mean, the Islanders only scored 25 fewer goals than the Stanley Cup Champions last season. Cole Sillinger > Pavel BuchnevichBuchnevich is serviceable and all but like I told you during trade deadline, I'd consider him as a rental or an early Waiver Draft Pick, not a Keeper in my books. He's 8 years older than Sillinger and I'd much rather take the risk of stashing Sillinger on my farm team until his eligibility runs out and make my decision from there based on how he's doing. Maybe he's a bust, maybe he's a beast...NONE of us can say for certainty yet with a 20 year old. Shane Pinto > William Dufour
This is a no brainer for me, I wouldn't add Dufour if he was dropped and I'm sure the majority of the league wouldn't add him either. Much better talent available out there for free. At best he's a bottom-6 Cal Clutterbuck. He's only played 1 NHL game and it would be impressive if he ever scored 20 goals in the NHL (especially on the Islanders right guys! 😁). 2023 1st Round Waiver Pick (WPG) (11th Overall) > 3rd Round Waiver Pick (26th Overall)This is a weird one. You downgraded three whole rounds. Didn't want to offer your 2nd Round to make it at least look better on paper even though it's only a three selection difference? Interesting. Next!!! 😀 |
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Aug 12, 2023 15:28:39 GMT -5
Personally I wouldn't of put a package together for Karlsson simply because he to old for my window. I have a hunch that the majority of the Consolation Bracket teams from last season share this sentiment. Even the defending Cup Champion said he wouldn't feel comfortable putting together a package better than what I offered. This trade will be interesting to look back on in 5 years time. We can't just look at this upcoming season because obviously it's a win now move on my part. |
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Post by Colin - Avalanche on Aug 12, 2023 15:38:35 GMT -5
Useless exercise but let's have fun! Karlsson Hyman 1st round 4th overall waiver For McAvoy Buchnevich Dufour 3rd round 26th overall waiver I didn't say anything but I thought it was a dusty trade at the time. Discussed the trade with other GMs. Figured we'd have our usually bad trade discussion then move on. It didn't happen. Why I voted no it shouldn't be vetoed. Doesn't change what I think about it. I think Derrick put it through I see the rosters are changed. Hopefully we can move on It's not a useless exercise because if the league isn't even interested in these players who is anyone to deny a GM of the players they are seeking out. Now on to your Trade Offer! 🙂 Your package right off the bat is a combined 9 years older, doesn't work as well if a GM is looking to become younger. Noah Dobson > Charlie McAvoyThe only reason I'm even willing to trade Dobson in the first place is because of my defensive depth. I'm shocked more GMs haven't been knocking on my door for one of my young studs (this is most likely due to how D are scored in our format). I've obviously chosen to move forward with Dahlin/Heiskanen/Power as my tandem for the foreseeable future. I would not trade Dobson for McAvoy straight up. I understand everyone's opinion that the Islanders are not very offense orientated, but compared to the rest of the league the Islanders are at the very top of the bottom third of the league for goals scored last season. Are people going to avoid Moritz Seider because he was on a less offensive team last season than the Islanders. I mean, the Islanders only scored 25 fewer goals than the Stanley Cup Champions last season. Cole Sillinger > Pavel BuchnevichBuchnevich is serviceable and all but like I told you during trade deadline, I'd consider him as a rental or an early Waiver Draft Pick, not a Keeper in my books. He's 8 years older than Sillinger and I'd much rather take the risk of stashing Sillinger on my farm team until his eligibility runs out and make my decision from there based on how he's doing. Maybe he's a bust, maybe he's a beast...NONE of us can say for certainty yet with a 20 year old. Shane Pinto > William Dufour
This is a no brainer for me, I wouldn't add Dufour if he was dropped and I'm sure the majority of the league wouldn't add him either. Much better talent available out there for free. At best he's a bottom-6 Cal Clutterbuck. He's only played 1 NHL game and it would be impressive if he ever scored 20 goals in the NHL (especially on the Islanders right guys! 😁). 2023 1st Round Waiver Pick (WPG) (11th Overall) > 3rd Round Waiver Pick (26th Overall)This is a weird one. You downgraded three whole rounds. Didn't want to offer your 2nd Round to make it at least look better on paper even though it's only a three selection difference? Interesting. Next!!! 😀 Cute opinions. But it didn't matter who I put, you'd rip them anyway. Buchnevich sure is a slouch at 1ppg. But I'm not going down the road of arguing a fictitious trade. It's just funny you make 4 points, heavily skewed in your favour then crown yourself victorious. Hence why no one put a fake trade offer out there becasue this was enivitible. |
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Aug 12, 2023 15:45:46 GMT -5
Lol. Just being honest dude. I triple dog dare you to keep Dufour on your farm for the entire season. 😂
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Post by Colin - Avalanche on Aug 12, 2023 15:54:00 GMT -5
Lol. Just being honest dude. I triple dog dare you to keep Dufour on your farm for the entire season. 😂 Maybe I do maybe I don't. If you haven't noticed my farm is pretty stacked. Sometimes good players have to be cut. |
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Aug 12, 2023 15:57:57 GMT -5
It'll taste sweeter when I beat Daniel in our matchups To Canucks: 2024 1st Round Entry Pick To Avalanche: 2024 1st Round Entry Pick That's what I thought, you can sit back down now. 😎🤠 |
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Post by Colin - Avalanche on Aug 12, 2023 20:59:32 GMT -5
It'll taste sweeter when I beat Daniel in our matchups To Canucks: 2024 1st Round Entry Pick To Avalanche: 2024 1st Round Entry Pick That's what I thought, you can sit back down now. 😎🤠 Lol I said I'd beat you in our matchups not beat you in the league... Do I stand now? Not sure how this works |
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Aug 12, 2023 21:09:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm having real trouble with this, I don't like what happened here at all. It's one thing to shit talk "in character" and boast about your team or whatever but it's another thing to bring real world anger and disruptive behavior to fantasy hockey. This was unsportsmanlike. Excuse making. If you actually look over the trades Bob made they were overall solid. Sure Derrick mentions the O'Reilly for Kopitar trade but at the time was that really such a bad move? To the point where a guy deserves being screamed at later for it? O'Reilly was injured throughout the year, no it didn't work out. What he fails to mention is that he acquired Zach Hyman and Dylan Holloway for Robert Thomas from the same GM. I'd say that at least off-sets the outcome for the year and doesn't add to the fact that the team finished in 10th place again. Sure Derrick mentions the unprocessed Batherson trade (gonna look like a beauty soon enough) but he fails to mention the Dylan Cozens & Matvei Petrov for Brad Marchand trade, yes an astute and ballsy move by Bob, terrific trade that showed positive outcome this season and beyond. He also added Gustav Forsling (#17 ranked defenseman 2 rank spots below Victor Hedman) for a 3rd Round Waiver pick, he kept Forsling. No other trades factor into a poor outcome for the team during the season to where Derrick claims he ran the team into the ground. These are unfounded claims and he didn't deserve that kind of treatment and vitriol for less than a year's time at the helm of the 10th place team he inherited that he didn't even have the opportunity to draft for. I feel really bad about this.
A few things I want to know going forward...
1. Is Derrick quitting? I really hope not because you're a great manager and a great Commissioner and we have a hell of a history but if you are I'd like the opportunity to assume the role of Commissioner for the rest of the guys who do want to fight, have fun and continue on. If you're not quitting, fuck yeah, let's gooooooooooooo!
2. Are we going to stop this real world anger and try to bring positivity and/or constructive criticism to our league?
3. Will we come to the understanding that there isn't one single 'correct' way to manage a fantasy hockey team and allow managers the freedom necessary to shape their teams as they see fit?
^ That's a good post Colin and I can see what you're saying even if I don't agree with everything. I'm not sure a probation period for trading could be implemented, like Chris said it's just too restrictive and could have a negative result for an incoming manager who probably wants to have access to all of the tools in the toolbox or he's at a disadvantage. I'm not sure where this 'predatory' comment comes from, trades are just discussed, in regards to Makar (if you're referencing me when you first came into the league) I notified you of who I was interested in and while I gave player names to start a discussion as soon as you showed no interest I asked you who you were looking at (Carter Hart) and I stupidly didn't want to trade him but I did offer a far more valuable piece in Aleksander Barkov that you declined. I feel like I was very polite and understanding of your valuation. If you're referencing Bob and the Batherson deal, like I've said before, he was the one to offer that to me and I accepted his offer. 'Predatory' is a fun and colorful way to describe things though! 😄 I don't really like the idea that you were okay with knowing Derrick deleted Bob's account (he didn't but you thought that he did), we have an NAFHL Constitution for a reason and that's to decide things as a collective and keep the integrity of the league intact and I've expressed this to Derrick. No harm though, I just want that to be known and understood, this is a democracy. Definitely echo your sentiments on having an awesome fantasy season!
Also cool you submitted a potential trade but do you really feel that's a trade that blows Daniel's out of the water?
Dobson = McAvoy (At best they're equal, Dobson's younger.)
Both Sillinger & Pinto are superior to Dufour (anemic offense Islanders riiight? 😛)
1st Round Waiver >> 3rd Round Waiver
Buchnevich (Interesting addition and sure a PPG (2 seasons) with poor shot totals and some injury concern, he's also much older than both and before these past two seasons he was doing about as good as those two, worse if you consider what they were doing at the same age. So it's one of those situations where I can certainly see the production he can bring but I'm not super high on him. If it were me I'd much rather be able to have a look at what Sillinger can do with that emerging Columbus team reason being, if he hits he's gonna hit and could become a far more valuable asset than Buchnevich and he's much younger, however, the risk is real. I have a philosophy of wanting to hit big and I see Buchnevich as someone who you could replace his contributions without too much difficulty.
That's just my view on it, I'm a bit confused with you thinking that's so much better? Would you think that's a veto worthy trade? Don't get me wrong, they're all good assets but I just don't see how it's so much better that Bob would go with yours instead of Daniel's. Not if he wants to get younger, potentially hit bigger and get a higher draft pick.
Anyway, much love league! 😆
PS: I actually have an idea on how we could cut down on these fights, somewhat, there's still evaluation disagreements to work around but for big players why don't we discuss the trades publicly and everybody can have a shot to make offers? That way the manager is getting true full value. Or at least speak to everybody privately, speaking publicly could help managers understand and evaluate the talent better though. You think NHL managers aren't telling other managers what everybody else is offering to squeeze the value?? These fuckers are also probably lying! All the more reason to do it publicly. Could be good, I dunno. 😅
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Post by Colin - Avalanche on Aug 12, 2023 22:22:47 GMT -5
That's a good post Colin and I can see what you're saying even if I don't agree with everything. I'm not sure a probation period for trading could be implemented, like Chris said it's just too restrictive and could have a negative result for an incoming manager who probably wants to have access to all of the tools in the toolbox or he's at a disadvantage. I'm not sure where this 'predatory' comment comes from, trades are just discussed, in regards to Makar (if you're referencing me when you first came into the league) I notified you of who I was interested in and while I gave player names to start a discussion as soon as you showed no interest I asked you who you were looking at (Carter Hart) and I stupidly didn't want to trade him but I did offer a far more valuable piece in Aleksander Barkov that you declined. I feel like I was very polite and understanding of your valuation. If you're referencing Bob and the Batherson deal, like I've said before, he was the one to offer that to me and I accepted his offer. 'Predatory' is a fun and colorful way to describe things though! 😄 I don't really like the idea that you were okay with knowing Derrick deleted Bob's account (he didn't but you thought that he did), we have an NAFHL Constitution for a reason and that's to decide things as a collective and keep the integrity of the league intact and I've expressed this to Derrick. No harm though, I just want that to be known and understood, this is a democracy. Definitely echo your sentiments on having an awesome fantasy season! I don't see how a probation period is restrictive. Most GMs don't do early season trades anyway. It's just a set time for the gm to get acclimated. I've heard it used in dynasty leagues in football and hockey. Etc. I dunno, seemed like an interesting idea. As for public discussion, I don't think that would work. Part of the fun is seeing the trades pop up and seeing what was involved. It could result in very few trades also, people ripping each others offers and debates over whose is better before the other GM decides... I can almost see how long the threads would be lol. Wild idea, I just wouldn't be into it and think it may cause even more debate. |
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Aug 12, 2023 22:35:22 GMT -5
Very good points. Just ideas! I guess I'm thinking people will act respectfully! LOL!
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Aug 12, 2023 22:37:19 GMT -5
Another idea could be that there's a restricted no trade clause kind of deal where the league votes on say 3 Keeper protects and 5 Farm protects where the new manager couldn't trade these specific large impactful pieces during this probation period.
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So exciting.
You better make that pick or trade it! I'm excited to see if we can use up all the draft picks this year.