Jets and Sens trade

[Chris - Capitals]

Jets get: Semin, Eaves, and Sanford



Sens get: Thorton

[Derrick - Senators]

lock it up.

[Mark - Bruins]

*cough* veto *cough*

[Chris - Capitals]

why veto?

Semin weather you guys believe it or not is going to be a star playing against 2nd rate D behind Ovechkin and is going to leech points off him on the PP he'll also be playing along with Zednik which will pot him 10-15a IMO

Eaves.....Great talent

Sanford....potential to be a great goalie if given the chance


for Thorton who yes is a great player but when I can get 2 good players and a HIGH POT player for one Great player seems like a good day at the office for me!

[Phil - Blue Jackets]

Apparently studs are untradable in this league. They can't be moved unless theres a stud on the other side. If this isn't your trade, prepare to get it vetoed by people who know a lot more than you. Have a nice day.

[Robyn - Flames]

Veto this. ASAP.

[Mark - Bruins]

cappy76 said:

why veto?

Semin weather you guys believe it or not is going to be a star playing against 2nd rate D behind Ovechkin and is going to leech points off him on the PP he'll also be playing along with Zednik which will pot him 10-15a IMO

Eaves.....Great talent

Sanford....potential to be a great goalie if given the chance


for Thorton who yes is a great player but when I can get 2 good players and a HIGH POT player for one Great player seems like a good day at the office for me!

First off, Thornton is among the TOP 2 BEST fantasy centers in the league. Trading a sure-fire top 5 overall pick for Semin (who has the potential -note: only potential- to be a first line player), Eaves (decent prospect/2nd line guy, nothing special about him besides playing with good linemates), and Sanford (marginal goalie prospect who isn't even guaranteed to be the future franchise goalie) is a crime. You could get a lot more for him.

[Mark - Bruins]

turcopolis said:

Apparently studs are untradable in this league. They can't be moved unless theres a stud on the other side. If this isn't your trade, prepare to get it vetoed by people who know a lot more than you. Have a nice day.

Its not about stud for stud... its about quality for quality. If he traded Thornton away for a few quality first line players or a couple of top tier prospects its one thing, but to give him up for one quality prospect who hasn't proven anything in the league yet, another prospect who's most probably outcome is a consistent 60 point scorer, and a mediocre goalie prospect on a horrible team. Last I checked, that isn't quality for quality.

[Derrick - Senators]

cronox said:

turcopolis said:

Apparently studs are untradable in this league. They can't be moved unless theres a stud on the other side. If this isn't your trade, prepare to get it vetoed by people who know a lot more than you. Have a nice day.

Its not about stud for stud... its about quality for quality. If he traded Thornton away for a few quality first line players or a couple of top tier prospects its one thing, but to give him up for one quality prospect who hasn't proven anything in the league yet, another prospect who's most probably outcome is a consistent 60 point scorer, and a mediocre goalie prospect on a horrible team. Last I checked, that isn't quality for quality.

how about a top tier prospect, first line player, and a more than servicable goalie all with upside? ...because thats what he is getting.
and last i checked i thought it was a general consensus that Eaves is and will be a first line player with spezza and heatley. Your "opinion" isnt the say all that ends all either. are we even sure legace is the outright starter in st. louis? or starter at all? no. you claim eaves for 60 points as an "ok" prospect? does that put semin at 80 points then as a quality prospect? so he trades away 1 stud for a 60 point guy, an 80 point guy, and a goalie who might be huge/flop. all of which can be sent to the farm freeing up 3 roster spots where he will then sign 3 more than servicable free agents. they are out there. assuming each are in the 50-60 point range too, the trade then becomes:

60p 80p goalie, 60,60,60

for thornton.

in a h2h where depth is a premium, i wouldnt think this trade to be terrible. of course im in favor of it because im one over the roster limit to boot. who am i, you, or anybody else to say whats best for his team? you cant smack him on the hand everytime you dont like something and sit him in the corner. if its in his strategy let it be. i dont go around criticizing trades (unless provoked) when they do down, if it happens it happens. the only thing veto worhty is blatant cheating. players with little or no value (present or future) for obvious studs.

trade talks started, i targeted thornton, he targeted what he targeted and this is what became of it. if a league dictates whats "fair" and right for every team you might as well just go through design your own rosters for each team. what if what the league thinks is "fair" doesnt fit into his plans? what if he soesnt want those players? we going to force players upon him now? when i say "him" i dont mean just winnipeg, this goes for everyone who may be or has been in this situation before.

[Robyn - Flames]

Wow, the second time Joe Thornton has been traded for garbage. Winnipeg and Boston have both been fleeced. Honestly, please cancel the trade, for the good of the league.

[Mark - Bruins]

admin said:

cronox said:

Its not about stud for stud... its about quality for quality. If he traded Thornton away for a few quality first line players or a couple of top tier prospects its one thing, but to give him up for one quality prospect who hasn't proven anything in the league yet, another prospect who's most probably outcome is a consistent 60 point scorer, and a mediocre goalie prospect on a horrible team. Last I checked, that isn't quality for quality.

how about a top tier prospect, first line player, and a more than servicable goalie all with upside? ...because thats what he is getting.
and last i checked i thought it was a general consensus that Eaves is and will be a first line player with spezza and heatley. Your "opinion" isnt the say all that ends all either. are we even sure legace is the outright starter in st. louis? or starter at all? no. you claim eaves for 60 points as an "ok" prospect? does that put semin at 80 points then as a quality prospect?

Last I checked, a 60 point forward isn't all that hard to find, so I guess I'd call that okay rather than an all-star. Assuming Semin can get 80 points (its very likely he won't reach that this season, rather his potential is around 80-95 points), then yes he is a quality prospect. Also, if you claim Legace might not even start in St. Louis (even though he explicitly stated that he won't sign anywhere unless he's the starter, which is why he left Detroit) then how do you know for sure Eaves will be 1st line in Ottawa? They might not even decide to split Spezza/Heatley/Afly because of their chemistry, like last season. Just because a guy plays on a certain line doesn't mean anything. Is Michael Handzus or Alexei Yashin better than Patrick Marleau and Henrik Sedin because they're first line centers and Marleau & Sedin aren't?

admin said:

cronox said:

so he trades away 1 stud for a 60 point guy, an 80 point guy, and a goalie who might be huge/flop.

all of which can be sent to the farm freeing up 3 roster spots where he will then sign 3 more than servicable free agents. they are out there. assuming each are in the 50-60 point range too, the trade then becomes:

60p 80p goalie, 60,60,60

for thornton.

in a h2h where depth is a premium,

so he gets 140 points in TWO players + a goalie who has high risk and medium rewards (face it, Legace was signed for a reason and Sanford is no Lehtonen, Fleury, or Rask) for 1 guy who can get 120 points. Also, why does he need to make this deal to sign FA's? He can do that right now and not even make any trade. There are only so many decent FA's out there and if Eaves + Semin are as good as you claim them to be, why would he put those two on the farm team? This point in your arguement is pretty flawed.

also you're right... STARTING ROSTER depth is a premium. with the one starting roster spot you freed up you can sign another FA/call up a player who can get around 60 points. thus, the deal is like this:

potential 80 points + potential 60+ points + current backup goalie (and possible future starting goalie)
for
120 points + 60 points

besides whats the point of having the world's greatest farm team if you can't play them?

admin said:

i wouldnt think this trade to be terrible. of course im in favor of it because im one over the roster limit to boot. who am i, you, or anybody else to say whats best for his team? you cant smack him on the hand everytime you dont like something and sit him in the corner.

isn't that the exact reason this league has a veto, to stop someone who makes a deal that is severly detrimental to his own team in the minds of others?

admin said:

if its in his strategy let it be. i dont go around criticizing trades (unless provoked) when they do down, if it happens it happens. the only thing veto worhty is blatant cheating. players with little or no value (present or future) for obvious studs.

that is why i am voicing my concern. i believe eaves and sanford have little value in a deal involving a stud like thornton. if you want to build a trade around semin, i'm all for it but at least include other quality people.

admin said:

trade talks started, i targeted thornton, he targeted what he targeted and this is what became of it. if a league dictates whats "fair" and right for every team you might as well just go through design your own rosters for each team. what if what the league thinks is "fair" doesnt fit into his plans? what if he soesnt want those players? we going to force players upon him now? when i say "him" i dont mean just winnipeg, this goes for everyone who may be or has been in this situation before.

I'm not dictating who he can and can't have, I'm just voicing my opinion in a manner which league rules say I can do.

PS
In the future, when defending you're own position using your opinions its better to not insult the other person by saying their opinions don't matter. Also, you're more credible when you don't accuse another person of underhanded antics.

[Derrick - Senators]

my opinions mean just as much as yours do. im not insulting anyone im just saying nobody knows for sure, especially dealing with prospects. value is somehwat in the eye of the trader. neither you nor i can say that semin wont get 90 points and that eaves wont score 35 goals. if those are the players he wants so be it. something definitely needs to be settled before FA signing starts thats for sure. this trade has an impact on how many roster spots both teams will have.

[Chris - Capitals]

Ok so let me get this straight because I didnt get a proven STUD guy in this trade I get screwed? and because its not a trade you would have made I get screwed. After this trade I realize that people out there might think I know donkey dick about hockey but really guys come on I didnt get garbage.

Semin will scored 30-40g and have 50-60a you cant play 2nd rate D every night with the skill this kid has and NOT score that much. again to bang my point in a lil more HE WILL BE PLAYING ON THE PP that will have.......Ovie, Zubrus, Pothier, and more than likely Mike Green (rookie that none of you have probably ever heard of) Ovie is good for a shit load of points on the PP whos gonna pass it to him? Semin the kids a playmaker and he will carry that PP just as much as Ovie.....

Eaves is a very good prospect hes going to put up points you cant play on Ottawa and not pick up points. Everyone in the Sens camp is saying that he will play on the top line with Heatly and Spezza. Playing with those guys im sure hes good for 80+ points dont believe me? Check the stats at the end of the year.

Stanford sure this is a strech....im already ok in Goal and im just shoring things up for the future the guys a damn good prospect and Legacey isnt going to be playing for the Blues forever. this is a keeper league and you gotta think season to season its not a one and done type thing.

Yea Thorton was a big talent to let go. IM NOT A DUMBASS I thought about this trade before I made it ask D i was on AIM with him for probably about and hour or more talking this through trying to figure out what we both thought was fair. and in the end guess what my team. IM happy with this trade. You guys arent because you couldnt put that package together to get Thorton from me, I targeted Semin we worked from there.
Sorry to sound so defensive but you guys just really pissed me off. I do my research and i know what im looking at with these players there not just 3 guys D put together and was like hey give you these guys and ill take Joe. I KNOW WHAT IM DOING dont be scared of my team.....and i dont know who said it but how do you figure Semin and Eaves will sit on my Farm team? I have the roster space for them

[Andrew]

Thornton is arguably the most valuable player in fantasy hockey, in immediate purposes especially.

The way I break down this trade is:

Derrick gets: the best player out there, possible 130+ points in a full season in San Jose.
Chris gets: - Semin, at best comparable to the Cheechoo situation, except I doubt an 80 point season
- Eaves, someone that could flip-flop between the first and third lines on any given night
- Sanford, the backup (best case scenario, the tandem) goalie in the worst team in the NHL

But hell, it doesn't matter what I or anybody else thinks of the trade to quote Phil, so I don't feel like making a long drawn out post. Everybody will see it different ways, and the way I and some others see it, is off the wall ridiculous.

I think in this situation, not all situations, we should put this to a league vote. That would be the most fair way to settle this in my unimportant opinion.

[Phil - Blue Jackets]

turcopolis said:

Apparently studs are untradable in this league. They can't be moved unless theres a stud on the other side. If this isn't your trade, prepare to get it vetoed by people who know a lot more than you. Have a nice day.

Just to clarify:

This post is bubbling over with sarcasm, if you didn't realize already. I agree with both sides but in different ways.

First of all, Thornton is arguably THE MOST valuable player in fantasy hockey. We're talkin about a PROVEN talent and point producer in the NHL. In no way would I have done this deal in exchange for Semin, Eaves, Sanford, Malkin, Erik Johnson, Bobby Ryan, Josh Harding, or any other combination of players that are "supposed" to be good. In addition, there is no way someone can predict big years from guys because of their "projected" linemates. The trade would have made more sense if it maybe included a guy like Teemu Selanne (a solid NHLer and proven scorer but with some question marks and added age) and Semin/Eaves, but that's just my opinion.

Secondly, Winnepeg is right. I am pissed that I didn't make a deal like that for Thronton. If I had any idea that kind of deal was even possible, I would have been on Peg's ball sack and had him in a tent quicker than the most broken of all mountains. But I didn't get that deal done. Such is life....que sera sera.

Finally, and most importantly, everyone who votes for veto is an idiot. That's right, an idiot. They are idiots because their views would be completely different if they were the ones getting Thornton (I'm saying this assuming no one but Winnepeg prefers his side.) In addition, Vetoing trades without collusion is GAY. It ruins the league. I hate that crap. You don't like the trade? Tough titties. I don't like it either, but I have some consistency in my views and opinions. I'm sure it will get vetoed but hey, I said my peace.

[canucksgm]

LOL

[adimutu]

VETO no way this is close to fair value for Thorton

[Ryan]

wow that was a deep post HArrison haha

[canucksgm]

thats all i did when i saw this post

[Ryan]

haha very nice