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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 12, 2019 5:28:01 GMT -5
The Ottawa Senators send Adam Fox to Binghamton. The Ottawa Senators recall Clayton Keller from Binghamton. Since this move was not made on Yahoo, should Clayton Keller play in his game later today he will be lost to Suspended Waivers. This is due to the fact that he will have played in 201 games before he would make it onto your main roster, which is illegal.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 12, 2019 9:29:57 GMT -5
The Ottawa Senators send Adam Fox to Binghamton. The Ottawa Senators recall Clayton Keller from Binghamton. Since this move was not made on Yahoo, should Clayton Keller play in his game later today he will be lost to Suspended Waivers. This is due to the fact that he will have played in 201 games before he would make it onto your main roster, which is illegal. You just can’t help yourself can you? Your argument is not only stupid but it is also factually incorrect. Once you click “add” on Yahoo the player in question is not visible in the free agent pool and is not able to be added to another team’s roster. Where do you think that player goes if not to the team that added him? Does the player cease to exist? Is the player held in limbo? This is no different than waivers kicking in on the first night of the season. Managers are able to add players up until the first puck drop of the first game even though that player or players names don’t appear as a text-based graphic on Yahoo until 3 A.M. that night/the following morning.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 12, 2019 9:50:58 GMT -5
The player can be added to a team but that doesn't mean the transaction takes effect immediately, per Yahoo the transaction will take effect the following day and by then Clayton Keller will have already played in 201 games thereby losing his eligibility status. Common sense.
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Dec 12, 2019 12:03:05 GMT -5
The player can be added to a team but that doesn't mean the transaction takes effect immediately, per Yahoo the transaction will take effect the following day and by then Clayton Keller will have already played in 201 games thereby losing his eligibility status. Common sense. I agree, the player needs to make it on said Yahoo rosters team at 200 games played or less period. Keller would officially be on your Yahoo team at 201 games played if he plays tonight which is against the rules.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 12, 2019 12:06:05 GMT -5
The player can be added to a team but that doesn't mean the transaction takes effect immediately, per Yahoo the transaction will take effect the following day and by then Clayton Keller will have already played in 201 games thereby losing his eligibility status. Common sense. Wrong. The transaction takes pace immediately (that’s why the player is unavailable to other teams). The visual representation of the transaction isn’t reflected until the following day (which is absolutely irrelevant in every aspect because you can just click on ‘tomorrow’ before the league updates and see the player in question listed on my roster). If it were any other way, managers would be able to add a player at 12:00 pm, drop that player for someone playing at 4:00 pm, then drop that player for someone playing at 7:00 pm, then drop that player for a player playing at 10:30 pm and so on. Don’t be ignorant.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 12, 2019 12:07:34 GMT -5
The player can be added to a team but that doesn't mean the transaction takes effect immediately, per Yahoo the transaction will take effect the following day and by then Clayton Keller will have already played in 201 games thereby losing his eligibility status. Common sense. I agree, the player needs to make it on said Yahoo rosters team at 200 games played or less period. Keller would officially be on your Yahoo team at 201 games played if he plays tonight which is against the rules. I’m not entertaining this any further. This is utter nonsense and a complete waste of time.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 12, 2019 19:14:57 GMT -5
The player can be added to a team but that doesn't mean the transaction takes effect immediately, per Yahoo the transaction will take effect the following day and by then Clayton Keller will have already played in 201 games thereby losing his eligibility status. Common sense. Wrong. The transaction takes pace immediately (that’s why the player is unavailable to other teams). The visual representation of the transaction isn’t reflected until the following day (which is absolutely irrelevant in every aspect because you can just click on ‘tomorrow’ before the league updates and see the player in question listed on my roster). If it were any other way, managers would be able to add a player at 12:00 pm, drop that player for someone playing at 4:00 pm, then drop that player for someone playing at 7:00 pm, then drop that player for a player playing at 10:30 pm and so on. Don’t be ignorant. What you're saying actually supports what I'm saying as you cannot add players at 4:00pm and then 7:00pm and then 10:30pm because the transactions do not take effect until the following day. Any transaction made is for the following day, your day's roster is locked in until the following day. Clayton Keller will be playing in his 201st game tonight and he will not be on your main roster, period. There is a period of time between transfers that you failed to acknowledge. Should you choose to ignore the rules you will be ignored as a competitor for the second straight year. Cheating cannot and will not be tolerated in any fashion. There is a code of honor we must live by or life becomes chaotic and without meaning.
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Dec 12, 2019 20:16:06 GMT -5
I agree, the player needs to make it on said Yahoo rosters team at 200 games played or less period. Keller would officially be on your Yahoo team at 201 games played if he plays tonight which is against the rules. I’m not entertaining this any further. This is utter nonsense and a complete waste of time. Lol. This is comical, Keller won't be on your main team and will have played 201 games by the end of the day. This is literally so cut and dry. You made a farm transaction post on the forum but didn't complete the transaction on Yahoo?! Why did you choose to do it this way anyway?
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Post by Kyle - Devils on Dec 14, 2019 13:58:35 GMT -5
I dont consider myself an expert on the rules but this one is pretty straightforward.
Clayton Keller wasn't added to the roster until his GP went to 201.
I am not sure why he wasn't just added previously but it looks like the yahoo transaction didnt take place until his GP limit was exceeded.
Maybe some other people want to chime in so we can get some other opinions.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 14, 2019 22:57:17 GMT -5
Here's another thing to consider, if you were to do it the way Derrick says you could then send down a player to your farm for protection at 150 games played but just before he plays the game he's scheduled to play that day to put him at 151 games...but then you could play him for his 151st game because he'd still be on your roster! Is this correct? The answer is no, no it is not.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 15, 2019 5:07:16 GMT -5
I dont consider myself an expert on the rules but this one is pretty straightforward. Clayton Keller wasn't added to the roster until his GP went to 201. I am not sure why he wasn't just added previously but it looks like the yahoo transaction didnt take place until his GP limit was exceeded. Maybe some other people want to chime in so we can get some other opinions. There is no chiming in. The Keller discussion is over. I told you this witch hunt will not be entertained any further. This is how the league has always operated so it is irrelevant what you THINK the rule should be in regard to Keller or when you THINK the transaction “looks to have taken place.” The fact of the matter is you can look on the front page of Yahoo and see EXACTLY when the transaction took place. December 12, 2019 at 7:31 PM EST. Keller’s 201st game did not begin until 8:00 PM EST on December 12, 2019. Once he was added to my team, he did not appear in the free agent pool and was not available to be picked up by any other team. That’s it. Period. End of discussion. You are arguing semantics about a graphical representation of said transaction which is absolutely irrelevant. You can’t honestly be this dense can you? We can discuss a rule clarification/modification moving forward but we certainly aren’t going to retroactively apply a rule that never existed to make me or anybody else lose a player because of a couple of individuals who just want to cause drama.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 15, 2019 5:33:22 GMT -5
Here's another thing to consider, if you were to do it the way Derrick says you could then send down a player to your farm for protection at 150 games played but just before he plays the game he's scheduled to play that day to put him at 151 games...but then you could play him for his 151st game because he'd still be on your roster! Is this correct? The answer is no, no it is not. This is in fact not the same at all. It’s just some more garbage “logic” to drive your narrative. Your example allows a team to earn stats on a players 151st game, which is what makes it an illegal action. Calling up a player on the day of his 201st game does not. The same way in which adding players on the first day of the season before the first puck drop/waivers kick in don’t allow you to earn stats that day. Which is exactly what the actual counterpart comparison to the issue at hand is, not your bogus example. Spare me the rhetoric please.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 15, 2019 6:17:54 GMT -5
How desperate can a person be? How shady? Do you believe the way you speak to your fellow managers is acceptable as Commissioner of a league? Multiple managers have shown concern and perfectly logical opinions on the matter and you've been nothing short of a prick. All that matters is Clayton Keller did not make it onto your team until his eligibility ran out, period. He played in 201 games and then was on your team, period. The reverse example I gave is not 'garbage', it's apt. Instead of gaining stats from a player you are gaining extra eligibility term, which makes it an illegal move. This has never been the way this rule has worked.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 16, 2019 8:49:11 GMT -5
How desperate can a person be? How shady? Do you believe the way you speak to your fellow managers is acceptable as Commissioner of a league? Multiple managers have shown concern and perfectly logical opinions on the matter and you've been nothing short of a prick. All that matters is Clayton Keller did not make it onto your team until his eligibility ran out, period. He played in 201 games and then was on your team, period. The reverse example I gave is not 'garbage', it's apt. Instead of gaining stats from a player you are gaining extra eligibility term, which makes it an illegal move. This has never been the way this rule has worked. Classic victim mentality. Stir the pot, create drama, and then cry foul when the person they attacked defends themself. I am not required to speak to my fellow managers in any particular way as Commissioner. I CHOOSE to treat every manager with respect, so long as it is warranted. But if someone wants to act like an asshole, I won’t hesitate to treat them like one. Just because I am Commissioner, doesn’t mean I am required to bite my tongue or tip-toe around sensitive subjects so I don’t hurt somebody’s feelings, especially when I have to defend myself from an attack. It’s tired. It’s old. And quite frankly, I’m not going to put up with it anymore. That goes for you, your brother, and any of your “clan” you want to try to do your bidding to push your obviously biased and targeted agenda. Keller was added to my roster on the forum 36 hours prior to his 201st game, and additionally on Yahoo 30 minutes prior to his 201st game. It doesn’t get any more cut and dry than that. Whatever “technicality” you are attempting to argue just makes YOU look desperate.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 16, 2019 9:36:17 GMT -5
Clayton Keller sucks. Him being on your team makes your team inferior to mine by definition. I couldn't care less about him being on your team. What I do care about are the rules and you continue to break them and balk at managers who call you out on it. Everybody was extremely respectful and polite until you took it in another direction because you were scared, straight up. You know you're wrong. You fucked up. Kyle was especially polite, humble and honest with his response and you attacked him. Why is that? You didn't like what he had to say? Or was it because he's a buddy of mine, so hey, he's an enemy? Nobody was acting like an asshole except for you. I am stunned you fail to see the folly in your opinions. It doesn't matter what the timeline was where you made the transaction from a time perspective. Clayton Keller wasn't on your team dude. He wasn't there when he played his 201st game. You had some other guy on your team instead when he was playing that game. End of story. How is this 'biased' and 'targeted'? I make comments and corrections all the time to all teams and managers, it's not something I do special for you. My opinion is the correct one and it's supported by clear and obvious common sense evidence. You actually go on to say this time method doesn't work for Prospect/Minor Leaguer switch over eligibility. Why? It's either a method of games or a method of time, not both, not one for this instance and one for another.
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Post by Coal - Kraken on Dec 16, 2019 17:24:51 GMT -5
How I see it is that Derrick made the moves prior to the 200 and the fact that he got an extra start is just a caveat of how yahoo is currently set up for adds/drops/roster changes. Which, in my humble opinion, is the larger issue here. We have our own rules that we are operating our league by (via this forum), and then we are still superimposing some yahoo rules onto that. I dont see why we can’t just run yahoo with the option for all changes (IR to main roster, farm to main, and other signings) are immediately reflected rather than a day after the fact. It’s just adding another layer to the mix that makes things convoluted, intern creating situations like this. There’s nothing in the rules about the yahoo regulations on this situation. But per 11D in the rules (idk how to quote), the transaction and the post were within 24 hours of each other so I think this move is fine.
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Post by Robyn - Flames on Dec 16, 2019 19:27:04 GMT -5
Fuck, this isn't even a debate. The transaction is time stamped prior to his 201st game, end of story.
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Post by Chris - Capitals on Dec 16, 2019 20:45:56 GMT -5
Agreed with Robyn and Coal prior. This move was made well before the 200 game was played....moving on.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 17, 2019 7:30:09 GMT -5
How I see it is that Derrick made the moves prior to the 200 and the fact that he got an extra start is just a caveat of how yahoo is currently set up for adds/drops/roster changes. Which, in my humble opinion, is the larger issue here. We have our own rules that we are operating our league by (via this forum), and then we are still superimposing some yahoo rules onto that. I dont see why we can’t just run yahoo with the option for all changes (IR to main roster, farm to main, and other signings) are immediately reflected rather than a day after the fact. It’s just adding another layer to the mix that makes things convoluted, intern creating situations like this. There’s nothing in the rules about the yahoo regulations on this situation. But per 11D in the rules (idk how to quote), the transaction and the post were within 24 hours of each other so I think this move is fine. Yahoo is all that matters, it is the system we've utilized from the beginning to run our league and moves only take effect once they're made on Yahoo otherwise you could make a paper transaction on the forum and then make moves on Yahoo days or even weeks later. It doesn't correlate. What you are suggesting with the ability to make moves instantaneously, like already mentioned, would then create the ability to sign players one after the other in a streaming fashion, at 4:00pm and then at 7:00pm and then at 10:00pm on the very same day. There is a layer of preparedness to the process. As far as rule 11D that you mention... 11) The “Minor Leagues” D) A post must be made within 24 hours on each teams respective transaction thread on the forum for every farm transaction that is being made. Derrick made the forum post at Dec 11, 2019 at 1:37am Pacific Standard Time and then made the move on Yahoo at Dec 12, 2019 at 4:31pm Pacific Standard Time. This is 38 hours and 54 minutes apart. So he is actually in violation of that rule as well. Fuck, this isn't even a debate. The transaction is time stamped prior to his 201st game, end of story. Robyn, so are you suggesting we've been operating under a method of time rather than games this whole time? When you make a transaction is the player immediately on your team? When Clayton Keller was playing in his 201st game was he on Derrick's team either playing in that game for him or on his Ottawa Senators bench? If we've been operating under a method of time rather than games then why can't this same exact method apply to the transition from Prospect to Minor Leaguer like mentioned earlier? This was denied by Derrick, which is a hypocritical stance and response. We are talking about eligibility term after all, from Prospect to Minor Leaguer to Roster player. If you can actually answer these questions with any sort of real evidence I'll be satisfied or rather I'll be stunned because it is not possible to corroborate. See, it's very easy to write a lazy one line response with zero evidence and only a misguided false opinion because you hold some grudge against another person. Be better.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 17, 2019 7:40:44 GMT -5
Yahoo is all that matters. What you don’t seem to understand is that YOU alone don’t get to subjectively decide how the league operates or “what matters.” The argument you are making is based on this premise, which, by default, makes it flawed. Yahoo is NOT all that matters. The forum is more important because the league operates on it 365 days a year and not just during the season. Yahoo is a 3rd party statistical application that we use to host our league, and unfortunately I can’t control how they choose to operate.
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