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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 17, 2019 8:12:32 GMT -5
11) The “Minor Leagues” D) A post must be made within 24 hours on each teams respective transaction thread on the forum for every farm transaction that is being made. Derrick made the forum post at Dec 11, 2019 at 1:37am Pacific Standard Time and then made the move on Yahoo at Dec 12, 2019 at 4:31pm Pacific Standard Time. This is 38 hours and 54 minutes apart. So he is actually in violation of that rule as well. This rule is irrelevant either way. You know as well as I know the spirit of this rule was in regard to players being sent down (not called up) so that a manager could not circumvent the waiver period and so that there wouldn't be any confusion who was a free agent and who was not. I tried to condense the rulebook to make the league more straight-forward but I should have known assholes like you would try to take advantage of it. Fuck, this isn't even a debate. The transaction is time stamped prior to his 201st game, end of story. Robyn, so are you suggesting we've been operating under a method of time rather than games this whole time? When you make a transaction is the player immediately on your team? When Clayton Keller was playing in his 201st game was he on Derrick's team either playing in that game for him or on his Ottawa Senators bench? If we've been operating under a method of time rather than games then why can't this same exact method apply to the transition from Prospect to Minor Leaguer like mentioned earlier? This was denied by Derrick, which is a hypocritical stance and response. We are talking about eligibility term after all, from Prospect to Minor Leaguer to Roster player. If you can actually answer these questions with any sort of real evidence I'll be satisfied or rather I'll be stunned because it is not possible to corroborate. See, it's very easy to write a lazy one line response with zero evidence and only a misguided false opinion because you hold some grudge against another person. Be better. You constantly misrepresent my arguments. You misrepresented Coal's as well. So I am not sure why I would expect anything different in regard to Robyn's. But here we are no less. You REFUSE to admit when you are wrong and resort to deflection all the while trying to come up with comparable examples that aren't comparable at all. I don't even know what to say anymore. This is literally one of the most cut and dry "debates" ever. The TIMESTAMP is all that matters. I am not sure why you can't get that through your head.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 17, 2019 8:17:34 GMT -5
Yahoo is all that matters. What you don’t seem to understand is that YOU alone don’t get to subjectively decide how the league operates or “what matters.” The argument you are making is based on this premise, which, by default, makes it flawed. Yahoo is NOT all that matters. The forum is more important because the league operates on it 365 days a year and not just during the season. Yahoo is a 3rd party statistical application that we use to host our league, and unfortunately I can’t control how they choose to operate. Is that really all you have to say? Seems pretty light for what's been brought up. I must have made some great points that you'd rather ignore. Cool, pretty typical. Yahoo being all that matters is the truth as far as the day to day operation of our league during the season. This is because it's the tool we use to run our league, from statistical analysis and calculations to our H2H format. If you make moves here on the forum and then don't make them on Yahoo...it doesn't matter. It's not possible to run it on the forum without a Hell of a lot more work. The forum is utilized for organizational purposes, for Keeper League purposes, not for day to day operation. Yahoo is intertwined within our rulebook, it's all over the place. 1) Administration of the League E) Each season uses “Yahoo Fantasy Sports” to manage each league. As members of this community, each manager must abide within the bylaws Yahoo Sports has placed before them in addition to the ones presented in this rulebook. You are suggesting that Yahoo is unimportant. It isn't. It is critical. So what about that rule you were in violation of? 24 hours? Will anything happen with that? Don't answer, I know the answer is no. Just...pick and choose, distort, make excuses, be hypocritical, unclear, dodge questions and concerns, provide zero tangible evidence, etc. At this point I'd let you keep Keller on your team regardless if I can just get an admission of guilt...but no, that won't happen either. I suppose I can't keep thinking people can and will be able to operate at my level, to my standard, with my ethics. You are who you are and I'm unimpressed and disappointed. You used to be a beast. Sad. As you were.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 17, 2019 8:22:59 GMT -5
If you make moves here on the forum and then don't make them on Yahoo...it doesn't matter. I MADE THE TRANSACTION ON YAHOO 30 MINUTES PRIOR TO KELLER'S 201ST GAME. WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? 1) Administration of the League E) Each season uses “Yahoo Fantasy Sports” to manage each league. As members of this community, each manager must abide within the bylaws Yahoo Sports has placed before them in addition to the ones presented in this rulebook. You are suggesting that Yahoo is unimportant. It isn't. It is critical. So what about that rule you were in violation of? 24 hours? Will anything happen with that? Don't answer, I know the answer is no. Just...pick and choose, distort, make excuses, be hypocritical, unclear, dodge questions and concerns, provide zero tangible evidence, etc. At this point I'd let you keep Keller on your team regardless if I can just get an admission of guilt...but no, that won't happen either. I suppose I can't keep thinking people can and will be able to operate at my level, to my standard, with my ethics. You are who you are and I'm unimpressed and disappointed. You used to be a beast. Sad. As you were. Again, a misrepresentation of my argument. I am not suggesting Yahoo is unimportant, I am suggesting yahoo is less important. As I said in my previous post.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 17, 2019 8:28:04 GMT -5
The TIMESTAMP is all that matters. I am not sure why you can't get that through your head. Time it is. You should probably add that to the rulebook along with all of the other rules we decided on in the off-season. Can you answer why the switch over from Prospect to Minor Leaguer doesn't utilize this time method? Is it because you can play that 151st game and gain stats? So stats are an important distinction but roster eligibility is not? Can you answer why that is? You keep going back to that first puck drop rule as if that were something to defend your position, those rules are nothing alike. At least with the Prospect/Minor Leaguer switch over you have the similarity in eligibility term changing...but no, it doesn't work like that for some reason to you. Bizarre. The reason I argue is because I see something worth arguing over and people keep going in circles providing zero real evidence to satisfy me. I continue to expand upon comments made, answer questions, give reasoning, evidence, and I'm just talking to people running around in circles like children who refuse to listen and learn. Fine. This is a waste of my time and abilities. Stay at your level.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 17, 2019 8:32:33 GMT -5
I MADE THE TRANSACTION ON YAHOO 30 MINUTES PRIOR TO KELLER'S 201ST GAME. WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? CLAYTON KELLER WAS NOT ON YOUR TEAM UNTIL THE FOLLOWING DAY! HE PLAYED IN HIS 201ST GAME AND HE WASN'T ON YOUR ROSTER! NOT ON THE BENCH AND NOT ON YOUR STARTING LINEUP! WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? Again, a misrepresentation of my argument. I am not suggesting Yahoo is unimportant, I am suggesting yahoo is less important. As I said in my previous post. Without Yahoo we are not able to run our league at all. It is as important as the forum.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 17, 2019 8:35:18 GMT -5
I MADE THE TRANSACTION ON YAHOO 30 MINUTES PRIOR TO KELLER'S 201ST GAME. WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? CLAYTON KELLER WAS NOT ON YOUR TEAM UNTIL THE FOLLOWING DAY! HE PLAYED IN HIS 201ST GAME AND HE WASN'T ON YOUR ROSTER! NOT ON THE BENCH AND NOT ON YOUR STARTING LINEUP! WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? Where did Clayton Keller go once I made the transaction on Yahoo at 7:31 P.M. EST on December 12th?
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 17, 2019 8:44:42 GMT -5
CLAYTON KELLER WAS NOT ON YOUR TEAM UNTIL THE FOLLOWING DAY! HE PLAYED IN HIS 201ST GAME AND HE WASN'T ON YOUR ROSTER! NOT ON THE BENCH AND NOT ON YOUR STARTING LINEUP! WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? Where did Clayton Keller go once I made the transaction on Yahoo at 7:31 P.M. EST on December 12th? He went onto your team but for the following day. You make moves in preparation for the next day and beyond. You do not make transactions instantly for the current day. Zero moves are made in this way. Zero. People are moved to IR but you cannot add anybody that day. You can add players, call up players, send down players, make trades, but all of these transactions do not happen on that day, it is for the next day or beyond. Once he made it onto your team he had played in 201 games and that 201st game wasn't played on your starting lineup nor your bench. It's so simple and obvious.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 17, 2019 9:04:05 GMT -5
Can you answer why the switch over from Prospect to Minor Leaguer doesn't utilize this time method? Is it because you can play that 151st game and gain stats? So stats are an important distinction but roster eligibility is not? Can you answer why that is? Yes. That is exactly right. During the regular season, we win weeks by scoring points. The amount of weeks we win determines our placing in the playoffs and has several ramifications ranging from seeding to entry draft position and waiver draft position the following summer. Allowing a prospect to play in his 151st game would give a statistical advantage to the team who is rostering that player. We don't receive "roster eligibility" points and they certainly don't win us weeks or give us statistical advantages over our opponents. THAT is the difference. Calling a player up before the puck drop of his 201st game has absolutely no bearing on the statistical outcome of any given matchup on any given week because, as you have pointed out a million times, the player doesn't APPEAR on our CURRENT DAY'S ROSTER until the next day (even though you can click a day ahead and the player will still be listed). What you are attempting to do is look at the entire sequence of events in retrospect instead of the individual transaction. It doesn't matter if you think I got an "extra start" out of Adam Fox because I didn't have to drop him prior to 3:00 AM on December 12th. If I wanted an extra start, I could have sent Quinn Hughes down and picked up any number of available players on the waiver wire who were playing in a game on 12/13. But I didn't, because it was never about getting more games played as you are trying to suggest. The NHL just so happened to have a full schedule on the night Keller's eligibility ran out. I can't control who is playing and who is not. That is the luck of the draw. Similar to how if a player plays in a game, gains stats, but gets injured during or after and goes on IR. A team is then able to pick up an additional player for the following day or days to, in your words, "gain an extra start." It is the luck of the draw. The fact of the matter is that it would be foolish to suggest I should have called Keller up at any other point than when I did. Why risk the possibility of having to either burn a roster spot on him should he get injured prior to his minor league eligibility running out or run the risk of him being claimed while testing waivers? It is equally as foolish to suggest that I don't know the rules or spirit of the rules that the league has operated under for the past 13 years. Trust me, if I could go back in time, I would add Keller a thousand times over prior to when I did if it meant I didn't have to deal with this repetitive illogical nonsense any longer.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 17, 2019 9:05:52 GMT -5
Where did Clayton Keller go once I made the transaction on Yahoo at 7:31 P.M. EST on December 12th? He went onto your team but for the following day. You make moves in preparation for the next day and beyond. You do not make transactions instantly for the current day. Zero moves are made in this way. Zero. People are moved to IR but you cannot add anybody that day. You can add players, call up players, send down players, make trades, but all of these transactions do not happen on that day, it is for the next day or beyond. Once he made it onto your team he had played in 201 games and that 201st game wasn't played on your starting lineup nor your bench. It's so simple and obvious. There is no "he went on my team but for the following day." He is either on my team or he isn't, regardless of when or where the graphical representation of his name appears. This imaginary "waiver" period between 7:31 PM EST and 3:00 AM EST does not exist.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 17, 2019 9:11:08 GMT -5
He went onto your team but for the following day. You make moves in preparation for the next day and beyond. You do not make transactions instantly for the current day. Zero moves are made in this way. Zero. People are moved to IR but you cannot add anybody that day. You can add players, call up players, send down players, make trades, but all of these transactions do not happen on that day, it is for the next day or beyond. Once he made it onto your team he had played in 201 games and that 201st game wasn't played on your starting lineup nor your bench. It's so simple and obvious. There is no "he went on my team but for the following day." He is either on my team or he isn't, regardless of when or where the graphical representation of his name appears. This imaginary "waiver" period between 7:31 PM EST and 3:00 AM EST does not exist. At any point between 7:31 PM EST and 3:00 A.M. EST on December 12th you could have simply clicked on the December 13th tab and you would have seen Keller listed on my team prior to the league updating. He was on my team the moment the transaction was made. He wasn’t eligible to start ACCRUING STATS until the following day. There is a big difference.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 17, 2019 9:23:54 GMT -5
Clayton Keller was able to be added to your team when he was because he hadn't played the game yet, had he played in an extra game by that point it would have been instantly illegal, he had to play in that 201st game nowhere on the Ottawa Senators to go over his eligibility limit but once he did he was no longer eligible to make it to the Senators. Make no mistake about it, he isn't on your team until the following day, period. At that point his eligibility is assessed. 201 games played. Illegal. That's it. Where is he playing that 201st game if not on the Ottawa Senators? If you want to call it 'limbo', the technicality you're trying to discredit, so be it. For Keller to be considered eligible, by definition, he had to either play his 201st game for the Ottawa Senators or he had to be sitting on the bench with the possibility of being able to play for the Ottawa Senators. He wasn't on the Ottawa Senators roster. You are utilizing the future as if it were the present and ignoring eligibility term.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 17, 2019 9:33:12 GMT -5
Clayton Keller was able to be added to your team when he was because he hadn't played the game yet, had he played in an extra game by that point it would have been instantly illegal, he had to play in that 201st game nowhere on the Ottawa Senators to go over his eligibility limit but once he did he was no longer eligible to make it to the Senators. Make no mistake about it, he isn't on your team until the following day, period. At that point his eligibility is assessed. 201 games played. Illegal. That's it. Where is he playing that 201st game if not on the Ottawa Senators? If you want to call it 'limbo', the technicality you're trying to discredit, so be it. For Keller to be considered eligible, by definition, he had to either play his 201st game for the Ottawa Senators or he had to be sitting on the bench with the possibility of being able to play for the Ottawa Senators. He wasn't on the Ottawa Senators roster. You are utilizing the future as if it were the present and ignoring eligibility term. Keller had to play his 201st game on the Senators? You just can’t make up rules and state them as fact to support the rest of your claim. The only rule that exists is that Keller can’t be on my farm team at 201 games played (regardless of where he is.) And he wasn’t. Free agents, limbo, main roster. Call it what you will. But again, these two things are very different.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 17, 2019 9:42:19 GMT -5
Clayton Keller was able to be added to your team when he was because he hadn't played the game yet, had he played in an extra game by that point it would have been instantly illegal, he had to play in that 201st game nowhere on the Ottawa Senators to go over his eligibility limit but once he did he was no longer eligible to make it to the Senators. Make no mistake about it, he isn't on your team until the following day, period. At that point his eligibility is assessed. 201 games played. Illegal. That's it. Where is he playing that 201st game if not on the Ottawa Senators? If you want to call it 'limbo', the technicality you're trying to discredit, so be it. For Keller to be considered eligible, by definition, he had to either play his 201st game for the Ottawa Senators or he had to be sitting on the bench with the possibility of being able to play for the Ottawa Senators. He wasn't on the Ottawa Senators roster. You are utilizing the future as if it were the present and ignoring eligibility term. Keller had to play his 201st game on the Senators? You just can’t make up rules and state them as fact to support the rest of your claim. The only rule that exists is that Keller can’t be on my farm team at 201 games played (regardless of where he is.) And he wasn’t. Free agents, limbo, main roster. Call it what you will. But again, these two things are very different. If I add a player from free agents on Yahoo at 8:30 PM EST, when am I allowed to trade that player to a different team?
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 17, 2019 9:58:18 GMT -5
All good man, keep him, this has ran its course. Nothing will change, I am wasting my time, I can see your point of view but I strongly disagree with it and I don't believe its correct. You start to go down a slippery slope with this kind of thing and other issues can and will crop up and we'll have to deal with it. All I have to say is Keller needed to be on your main playable roster when his 201st game was being played for him to actually be eligible for transfer from his farm status. If he's in 'limbo' at this point then he's linked more to where he was previously, the farm, rather than the main roster where he hasn't made it to yet. In order to make it to the main roster you need to cross all the T's and dot all the I's and have him be eligible for transfer at the time he actually makes the team. That's it.
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Post by Kyle - Devils on Dec 17, 2019 20:03:40 GMT -5
How desperate can a person be? How shady? Do you believe the way you speak to your fellow managers is acceptable as Commissioner of a league? Multiple managers have shown concern and perfectly logical opinions on the matter and you've been nothing short of a prick. All that matters is Clayton Keller did not make it onto your team until his eligibility ran out, period. He played in 201 games and then was on your team, period. The reverse example I gave is not 'garbage', it's apt. Instead of gaining stats from a player you are gaining extra eligibility term, which makes it an illegal move. This has never been the way this rule has worked. Classic victim mentality. Stir the pot, create drama, and then cry foul when the person they attacked defends themself. I am not required to speak to my fellow managers in any particular way as Commissioner. I CHOOSE to treat every manager with respect, so long as it is warranted. But if someone wants to act like an asshole, I won’t hesitate to treat them like one. Just because I am Commissioner, doesn’t mean I am required to bite my tongue or tip-toe around sensitive subjects so I don’t hurt somebody’s feelings, especially when I have to defend myself from an attack. It’s tired. It’s old. And quite frankly, I’m not going to put up with it anymore. That goes for you, your brother, and any of your “clan” you want to try to do your bidding to push your obviously biased and targeted agenda. Keller was added to my roster on the forum 36 hours prior to his 201st game, and additionally on Yahoo 30 minutes prior to his 201st game. It doesn’t get any more cut and dry than that. Whatever “technicality” you are attempting to argue just makes YOU look desperate. Theres no clan mentality going on here sure i was brought into the league through them but my opinion is my own. And thats all i was giving was my opinion so that we could talk about it a little more so i could have some clarification. Just because you two can't talk about issues without getting personal and insulting doesn't mean that the rest of us can't voice our input. Clearly keller is not going anywhere and theres some overlapping between yahoo and the forums which caused this whole issue.
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Dec 17, 2019 20:19:28 GMT -5
I can't really think of another situation where a manager has taken over 24 hours to complete a corresponding farm transaction made on the forum to Yahoo. Usually these transactions are both made within minutes of each other, bizzare way to approach things.
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Dec 17, 2019 20:34:12 GMT -5
It's like you sent Adam Fox down on December 11th but played him on December 12th...whhaaa?!?
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 17, 2019 21:00:00 GMT -5
I can't really think of another situation where a manager has taken over 24 hours to complete a corresponding farm transaction made on the forum to Yahoo. Usually these transactions are both made within minutes of each other, bizzare way to approach things. Right. When one of your theories is shot down and proven to be ridiculous, don’t acknowledge it, and it’s on to the next thing. If that isn’t the definition of a witch hunt I don’t know what is. How many straws are you going to grasp at before you finally give up? The longer you drag this on the more ignorant you look. I didn’t have to make the post on the forum before I made the Yahoo transaction AT ALL. I just chose to do so to make my intentions known. Additionally, even if I were required to do so, 24 hours after when I made the original post (4:37 A.M. EST on December 11th) would have been at 4:37 A.M. EST on December 12th. Or in other words, after the league already updated for the day resulting in the EXACT same thing. Adam Fox still being on my roster for that day. In terms of rosters and how transactions are processed on Yahoo, it didn’t matter if I called Keller up at 3:01 A.M. or 7:59 P.M.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 17, 2019 23:39:56 GMT -5
You've shot down exactly nothing whatsoever and the fact that you get so angry, defensive and insulting toward these comments should signal off warning signs about you and your intentions immediately to anybody with an unbiased functioning brain.
You've never done it like this before. It's almost as if you knew what you were doing could be called into question so you wanted to have at least some recourse should you be called out on your bullshit. Make your intentions known to cheat, sure.
There's only one phrase I can think of in times like these and it's...let the baby have his bottle.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 18, 2019 0:41:42 GMT -5
You've shot down exactly nothing whatsoever and the fact that you get so angry, defensive and insulting toward these comments should signal off warning signs about you and your intentions immediately to anybody with an unbiased functioning brain. You've never done it like this before. It's almost as if you knew what you were doing could be called into question so you wanted to have at least some recourse should you be called out on your bullshit. Make your intentions known to cheat, sure. There's only one phrase I can think of in times like these and it's...let the baby have his bottle. No. You’re just extremely paranoid and/or are purposely being an asshole. There is no hidden motive or secret agenda. I made a transaction differently than I have in the past. So what? Things happen. Now you’re trying to police HOW I make transactions too? Ridiculous.
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