Detroit Red Wings Farm Transactions

[Colin - Avalanche]

Jan 10, 2024 17:04:32 GMT -5 Chris - Capitals said:

Jan 9, 2024 22:05:58 GMT -5 Nos - Sharks said:

Both Mercer & Tolvanen had played in their 201st game before being recalled. I don't see why accumulating stats matters? For these situations we are determining how long you can roster your Minor Leaguers on your farm team before they graduate to regular Player status. Adding a rule like "...no player may accumulate stats" creates more issues and scenarios to think about. For instance, how long can you keep the Minor Leaguer on your main roster as long as he isn't accumulating stats? There's something I'm likely misunderstanding. Bottom line, as I'm understanding this, you are saying you can keep your Minor Leaguers on your farm team for 201 games instead of 200 as long as you recall the player before the day is out for his 201st game? Before Midnight Pacific Time.

I think the accumulating stats comment is more for sending down prior to the 150 game mark, to ensure that a player being sent to the minors doesn't accumulate stats on the active roster for a what amounts to their 151st game played.

To me the rule is cut and dry the expectation has always been:
A. Player loses "prospect" status after playing 150 games. Said player cannot be sent down on the day of 151st game and forgo being subject to waivers, because yahoo wouldn't put the move through until the next day the player by our rules would no longer be a prospect as game 151 would make him a "Minor Leaguer". The move would have to be made at some point prior to game day of 151.

B. Player loses "Minor Leaguer" status after playing 200 games. As of the game day on said players 201st game he wouldn't be active within the main roster with a recall so a recall must take place prior to game day of 201.

I do agree with Colin-Avs point of "A situation could arise where a player is injured at 200 games for who knows how long, then gets activated before game 201 weeks later, no warning. And if you see it same day he's lost now? Seems silly" but this is such a minuscule use case that I'd be completely ok with if a player is injured at game 200, then game 201 being missed is perfectly fine as long as said player is recalled before 202.

So I'm not sure we have the right interpretation here. The rule says '150 games or fewer' minor leaguer, '200 games or fewer' waiver eligible. Both of these statements include the number as qualifying for them for each disignation. So the prospect in question does not become a minor leaguer or waiver eligible until game 151 or 201 not when they've played game 150 or 200.

Another scenario is end of season, minor leaguer gets hurt at 200 games with a few real games left
Does the GM have to guess if he will play one of the last few games? All I'm saying is, if we make it game time before their 151st or 201st. It's as simple as we can make it and creates less of these what if scenarios. It just allows for leway if there are curveballs with injuries or in my case soon with Skinner whether or not he starts. Actually wow, another scenario. Skinner isn't starting game 101, so I leave him up but on the bench. Then he gets put in because either, starter is hurt or he gets pulled. Now he's played in 201 and I can't send him down despite not accumulating stats? So goalies have really one less game unless you take a massive risk.

It would be much less convuluded if we had same day transactions. Then we wouldn't have these accumating points conversations or GMs dropping players but getting a free game out of them. It's been brought up before and been called strategy... Then I don't see why that can't be applied to minor leaguers and their games played.

Personally, same day transactions (separate issue for offseason) and game time as the bench mark for a game played eliminates a lot of the guess work here. Kinda like how free agent signing interpretation morphed into game time of the 1st game haha.

[Nos - Sharks]

I see what you're saying but you're just wishing it was one way when it's not. We don't operate with same day transactions, never have. There is a level of anticipation required in our league.

[Chris - Capitals]

Jan 11, 2024 23:33:34 GMT -5 Colin - Avalanche said:

Jan 10, 2024 17:04:32 GMT -5 Chris - Capitals said:

I think the accumulating stats comment is more for sending down prior to the 150 game mark, to ensure that a player being sent to the minors doesn't accumulate stats on the active roster for a what amounts to their 151st game played.

To me the rule is cut and dry the expectation has always been:
A. Player loses "prospect" status after playing 150 games. Said player cannot be sent down on the day of 151st game and forgo being subject to waivers, because yahoo wouldn't put the move through until the next day the player by our rules would no longer be a prospect as game 151 would make him a "Minor Leaguer". The move would have to be made at some point prior to game day of 151.

B. Player loses "Minor Leaguer" status after playing 200 games. As of the game day on said players 201st game he wouldn't be active within the main roster with a recall so a recall must take place prior to game day of 201.

I do agree with Colin-Avs point of "A situation could arise where a player is injured at 200 games for who knows how long, then gets activated before game 201 weeks later, no warning. And if you see it same day he's lost now? Seems silly" but this is such a minuscule use case that I'd be completely ok with if a player is injured at game 200, then game 201 being missed is perfectly fine as long as said player is recalled before 202.

So I'm not sure we have the right interpretation here. The rule says '150 games or fewer' minor leaguer, '200 games or fewer' waiver eligible. Both of these statements include the number as qualifying for them for each disignation. So the prospect in question does not become a minor leaguer or waiver eligible until game 151 or 201 not when they've played game 150 or 200.

Another scenario is end of season, minor leaguer gets hurt at 200 games with a few real games left
Does the GM have to guess if he will play one of the last few games? All I'm saying is, if we make it game time before their 151st or 201st. It's as simple as we can make it and creates less of these what if scenarios. It just allows for leway if there are curveballs with injuries or in my case soon with Skinner whether or not he starts. Actually wow, another scenario. Skinner isn't starting game 101, so I leave him up but on the bench. Then he gets put in because either, starter is hurt or he gets pulled. Now he's played in 201 and I can't send him down despite not accumulating stats? So goalies have really one less game unless you take a massive risk.

It would be much less convuluded if we had same day transactions. Then we wouldn't have these accumating points conversations or GMs dropping players but getting a free game out of them. It's been brought up before and been called strategy... Then I don't see why that can't be applied to minor leaguers and their games played.

Personally, same day transactions (separate issue for offseason) and game time as the bench mark for a game played eliminates a lot of the guess work here. Kinda like how free agent signing interpretation morphed into game time of the 1st game haha.

That's what I'm saying as well 151 and 201 is when the status changes, however as soon the player starts game 151 or 201 they're a minor leaguer/waiver eligible. They step on the ice and record a second they're no longer eligible for said status which creates the issue of a prospect playing game 151 and per our rules being a "Minor leaguer" and accumulating stats for the manager and therefore not eligible to be sent down without passing through waivers. Yes, the GM has to do their homework and determine if the player will be back and therefore ineligible to be on the farm team by the end of the season. We don't have same day transactions, like Nos said a level of anticipation that's needed.

I'm not seeing what's convoluted here a player cannot have 151 games played and be sent down without passing through waivers, a player cannot have 201 games and exist on the farm team. Sending down a player that has played 150 games on the same day as a game in which he plays 151 would therefore be an unfair advantage allowing said player to accumulate stats for the manger. A manager can't recall a player the same day as 201 because the transaction won't take place until after 201 was played, the manager would then get an extra game out of player on their roster that otherwise wouldn't be there due to the recall of player playing in game 201.

[Colin - Avalanche]

Jan 12, 2024 11:14:52 GMT -5 Chris - Capitals said:

I'm not seeing what's convoluted here a player cannot have 151 games played and be sent down without passing through waivers, a player cannot have 201 games and exist on the farm team. Sending down a player that has played 150 games on the same day as a game in which he plays 151 would therefore be an unfair advantage allowing said player to accumulate stats for the manger. A manager can't recall a player the same day as 201 because the transaction won't take place until after 201 was played, the manager would then get an extra game out of player on their roster that otherwise wouldn't be there due to the recall of player playing in game 201.

I guess my main point is, I don't see why yahoo transaction time matters when it comes to games played, because according to our rules they are eligible to be minor leaguers until the 201st game is played by nhl standards. Not by yahoo transaction standards.

On top of that you don't get stats for the player being called up on game day. So you're losing out on those if you wait.
I can understand the day before rule applying to being sent down, because you can get stats for the game they aren't technically supposed to be playing in. That's my take on it

[Nos - Sharks]

You are not gaining stats but this doesn't matter, what you are gaining is an extra game of farm eligibility. Like I said previously, you will have to make the same exact decision at the farm limit whether it's 200 GP or 201 GP. It sounds like you want 201 GP, which is fine, I feel it should stick to 200 GP. I think since there has been this confusion (No confusion for 12+ years, or whatever it was, before the Keller case. This never came up once and everybody followed the rules exactly as Chris has laid them out.) I would be okay with Jeff keeping Mercer in this instance but I feel we should straighten this confusion out by agreeing on what the farm eligibility should be and then create a document of sorts, thread, a poll, where all managers would be required to read and acknowledge the terms so there will be no more legitimate confusion in the future. This is definitely a big critical rule that everybody should be on the same page with and understand fully.

[Chris - Capitals]

Jan 14, 2024 1:41:47 GMT -5 Colin - Avalanche said:

Jan 12, 2024 11:14:52 GMT -5 Chris - Capitals said:

I'm not seeing what's convoluted here a player cannot have 151 games played and be sent down without passing through waivers, a player cannot have 201 games and exist on the farm team. Sending down a player that has played 150 games on the same day as a game in which he plays 151 would therefore be an unfair advantage allowing said player to accumulate stats for the manger. A manager can't recall a player the same day as 201 because the transaction won't take place until after 201 was played, the manager would then get an extra game out of player on their roster that otherwise wouldn't be there due to the recall of player playing in game 201.

I guess my main point is, I don't see why yahoo transaction time matters when it comes to games played, because according to our rules they are eligible to be minor leaguers until the 201st game is played by nhl standards. Not by yahoo transaction standards.

On top of that you don't get stats for the player being called up on game day. So you're losing out on those if you wait.
I can understand the day before rule applying to being sent down, because you can get stats for the game they aren't technically supposed to be playing in. That's my take on it

But you do gain stats because you're able to keep a player on your main roster that you otherwise wouldn't because the player that no longer is eligible for minor leaguer status isn't rostered by the pro team.

[Jeff - Red Wings]

Send Gustvasson to GR

[Colin - Avalanche]

Jan 14, 2024 3:08:19 GMT -5 Nos - Sharks said:

You are not gaining stats but this doesn't matter, what you are gaining is an extra game of farm eligibility. Like I said previously, you will have to make the same exact decision at the farm limit whether it's 200 GP or 201 GP. It sounds like you want 201 GP, which is fine, I feel it should stick to 200 GP. I think since there has been this confusion (No confusion for 12+ years, or whatever it was, before the Keller case. This never came up once and everybody followed the rules exactly as Chris has laid them out.) I would be okay with Jeff keeping Mercer in this instance but I feel we should straighten this confusion out by agreeing on what the farm eligibility should be and then create a document of sorts, thread, a poll, where all managers would be required to read and acknowledge the terms so there will be no more legitimate confusion in the future. This is definitely a big critical rule that everybody should be on the same page with and understand fully.

I understand what you're saying, but the definition says 200 games or less (not less than 200 games) he can be on my farm. So until he starts game 201, he's eligible. I interpret that as I have until the start of his 201st game to call him up. I know I said I'd be ok with him keeping the player, but if I was being true to how I see it, calling him up after the game started means you're too late. That's not getting an extra game. The fact it takes yahoo 1 day to process is irrelevant to the paper transaction.

But if we're saying the yahoo transaction time matters then we have to change the definitions

[Nos - Sharks]

We aren't saying you need to roster your Minor Leaguers for less than 200 games. We are saying you are at max capacity at 200 games played and cannot go over this limit. Yes, he is eligible until he starts his 201st game but if he isn't on your main roster to play his 201st game then he's illegally on your farm team for 201 games and should be lost to Suspended Waivers. Your opinion has an inconsistency to it whereas our opinion (Chris, Daniel and I) follows a logical consistency. You are not okay with same day transactions for a Prospect clocking over to Minor Leaguer status for his 151st game since he's gaining stats for your main team but you are okay with same day transactions for a Minor Leaguer clocking over to regular Player status ignoring the extra game of farm eligibility the player would receive and, as Chris already stated, gaining stats from another player who shouldn't be on your main roster should you want to recall the player. It just doesn't coalesce my good man. The definitions have been understood for the vast majority of the league's history. Even Derrick himself followed the rules exactly as Chris has laid them out for 12+ years before his Keller situation arose. The definitions do not have to be changed, they have to be understood by everyone.

[Jeff - Red Wings]

Connor off IR and Scheifele to IR

[Jeff - Red Wings]

Scheifele off IR. Release Schmaltz from Detroit

[Jeff - Red Wings]

Vladar to IR and recall UPL to Detroit

[Jeff - Red Wings]

Sharangovich to IR
Call up Faber to Detroit

[Jeff - Red Wings]

Activate Sharangovich from IR
Release K. Miller from Detroit

[Jeff - Red Wings]

Thompson on IR
Detroit signs Jean-Gabriel Pageau

[Nos - Sharks]

[Colin - Avalanche]

Nov 16, 2024 9:26:16 GMT -5 Nos - Sharks said:

I think Derrick would be proud 😂