Future Drafts

[Derrick - Senators]

For future drafts, should a serpentine method be used, or a standard method simulating real life? majority rules...

[Nos - Sharks]

Definitely serpentine draft, especially for the waiver draft because it's essentially the inaugural draft with less picks and you had that draft done in serpentine-ian fashion.

[Phil - Blue Jackets]

The innaugural and first prospect draft was done in a serpentine fashion because all teams came in with an equal footing. There was nothing to determine who was better and who was not. All managers got a fair chance to construct their team how they wanted.

That is over now. After this season we will have something to decide draft orader and overall team ranking. That is the determining factor in what picks each team gets. A serpentine draft would negate all of that. As i said before, a serpentine draft is designed to build teams "evenly." If you get the first pick, you have to wait longer for your next selection. That was necessary when all teams were equal. But after this season, all teams will not be equal, and the lesser teams deserve better picks.

[Mark - Bruins]

turcopolis said:

The innaugural and first prospect draft was done in a serpentine fashion because all teams came in with an equal footing. There was nothing to determine who was better and who was not. All managers got a fair chance to construct their team how they wanted.

That is over now. After this season we will have something to decide draft orader and overall team ranking. That is the determining factor in what picks each team gets. A serpentine draft would negate all of that. As i said before, a serpentine draft is designed to build teams "evenly." If you get the first pick, you have to wait longer for your next selection. That was necessary when all teams were equal. But after this season, all teams will not be equal, and the lesser teams deserve better picks.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Nos - Sharks]

The lesser teams don't "deserve" shit. Everybody will have 10 solid keepers anyway.

[Phil - Blue Jackets]

What does everyone having 10 solid keepers(true or not) have to do with what teams deserve?

1) You are obviously trying to even things out for teams that finish better in the league.

2) In my opinion, this is due to the fact you expect your team to be one of those teams.

3) That makes your argument weak. You're not arguing your point because it is what should be done. You're arguing the point because you want to make things as good for you and your team as possible.

[Nos - Sharks]

Having 10 solid keepers each puts us back onto a level playing field. What you're suggesting is tipping the scales too much in favour of lesser teams when it should be kept fairly equal. Lesser teams are still getting top picks, therefore have an advantage. What is your argument anyway? You don't have one. You're fighting to get better picks because you think your team is in the dumps, while I'm fighting to keep things as equal as possible. To instate a 1-12, 1-12 system for the waiver draft is just a plain wrong decision. I could understand one during the prospect draft (although I'm against that too) but the waiver should stay the same and as far as I know it was always supposed to be a serpentine waiver draft.

turcopolis said:

You're not arguing your point because it is what should be done. You're arguing the point because you want to make things as good for you and your team as possible.

That's exactly what you're doing bummies.

[Phil - Blue Jackets]

nossharks said:

Having 10 solid keepers each puts us back onto a level playing field. What you're suggesting is tipping the scales too much in favour of lesser teams when it should be kept fairly equal. Lesser teams are still getting top picks, therefore have an advantage. What is your argument anyway? You don't have one. You're fighting to get better picks because you think your team is in the dumps, while I'm fighting to keep things as equal as possible. To instate a 1-12, 1-12 system for the waiver draft is just a plain wrong decision. I could understand one during the prospect draft (although I'm against that too) but the waiver should stay the same and as far as I know it was always supposed to be a serpentine waiver draft.

turcopolis said:

You're not arguing your point because it is what should be done. You're arguing the point because you want to make things as good for you and your team as possible.

That's exactly what you're doing bummies.

That is NOT what I am doing and no it shouldn't be kept "fairly equal." If having 10 solid keepers means teams are once again equal, and we should keep all the drafts "fairly equal," then why have a keeper league at all? Why don't we just have a yearly league and keep the same managers. That seems like the best way to keep it "even."

www.geocities.com/nafhl2006/

It's right there under the RULES tab, section 6, sub-section C: With the exception of season 1, the drafting order for each draft will be determined based on standings for that particular sport the previous season. For example, if team A finishes in last in the standings for season 1, he will have the first pick in each round for the Prospect Draft AND the Waiver Draft in season 2. If team B finishes in second place in the standings for season 1, he will have the second-last pick each round for the Prospect Draft AND the Waiver Draft in season 2.

Teams are not "even." The league winner is not even with the last place team. To suggest so is ludicrous.

[Derrick - Senators]

turcopolis said:

Teams are not "even." The league winner is not even with the last place team. To suggest so is ludicrous.

...but i think we all can agree that the best team doesnt always win.

anyway, still waiting on votes/opinions from:

Pittsburgh
Buffalo
Calgary
Montreal
Ottawa
Toronto
Vancouver

[Mark - Bruins]

admin said:

turcopolis said:

Teams are not "even." The league winner is not even with the last place team. To suggest so is ludicrous.

...but i think we all can agree that the best team doesnt always win.

It doesn't always win, just the majority of the time.

The whole idea that "everyone has 10 keepers so we're all equal" isn't a fair statement. If they were all equal, then wouldn't we all tie for first place? Since some teams will be better than others, it stands that the worser teams should get the better picks in the draft in order to maintain a semblance of competition in this league. Otherwise, the better keep on getting better while the bad teams stay bad. Whats the point in being in a league where only 2 or 3 teams would end up having a realistic chance of doing well?

[Derrick - Senators]

cronox said:

The whole idea that "everyone has 10 keepers so we're all equal" isn't a fair statement. If they were all equal, then wouldn't we all tie for first place?

a team could have the top 10 best statistical fantasy players in the league and that means nothing once the injury bug sets in. what appears to be the best team right now might not be at the end of the year...the end of the month, or even the end of the week. it is very unlikely that any one team will be the "best" week in and week out, that is just the way of fantasy sports. like i said, injuries being the biggest reason....players not living up to expectations, and anything of the likes can contribute. besides, teams arent supposed to be, and will not ever be equal, hence the managers touch on the team. everytime all 12 teams arent equal were just going to chalk it up and give the poor drafters another shot and another shot and another shot until they get it right?

take toronto for example.... pretender turned contender in just a couple weeks time with a few simple moves. I feel the most accurate way to judge a "team" is not just solely by its players but by its manager as well. as a manager you dont have any control on how the players perform, you can only use knowledge to your advantage. Any normal joe can come in and draft a team chucked full of "good" players based on their yahoo rankings and such, as far as im concerned, there isnt any skill in that at all. in giving the lesser teams THIS much of an advantage we would be totally negating that aspect from a managerial aspect. It is not mine, yours, or anybody elses responsibility to compensate the less knowlegable managers, the ones who didnt "show up" at the draft, and the ones who dont have any trade negotiating skills whatsoever.

now, i understand the need for the lesser teams to have a way to get better and all but i dont feel it should be this heavily favored (both drafts being standard.) i think we should meet in the middle somewhere so that its not so lopsided for either group. (contenders, bottomfeeders) Both (potential) groups are arguing their cases but i havent really heard a reason as to why serpentine drafts would be a bad thing. ive only heard why standard style would be a good thing. in going the serpentine route, all teams would get to keep their 10 "best" players. obviously these "contenders" who have more than 10 good players that are keepable would have to drop them back into the waiver pool thus bringing the teams closer in terms of being "equal." It would then be a question of whether the manager who drafted poorly in previous seasons or had a few season miscues came prepared for the draft this year. naturally some teams will have a slight advantage due to the work they put in the previous season(s) and thats how it should be; rewarded for knowledge and "hard work" rather than just playing the numbers game.

understand that i dont really have a preference either way, im fine with whatever because i can adjust/adapt. i am simply speaking my honest opinion on the matter. i also feel that it is best to meet somewhere in the middle rather than making it lopsided for the weaker teams. i am a firm believer in activity and participation/hard work rather than just going through the motions. Should i end up on the opposite side of things, should my team fall off and i finish last, my position will not change. dont think i argue the way i do because im in whatever group of teams you want to classify me.

[Andrew]

I could care less either way. For the waiver draft, I think it would be fair to hold a standard draft. The way I look at it is if we're going 1-12, 1-12, 1-12, then the top team and the bottom team will have basically the same picks all the way through, except the bottom team will have the top overall pick compared to the top team's last overall pick. With 10 keepers, I think that's reasonable. Basically, the top overall player in the waiver draft will be a lower ranked fantasy player, not that much better than the top ranked FAs in some other smaller leagues. I think that seems fair enough.

However, with the prospect draft, I wouldn't want to cater to the lower ranked teams. I think it should be a serpentine or non-serpentine draft where the top ranked teams pick first. These are players that haven't reached NHL and it's our job to assess what their potential is. With prospects, it comes down to drafting strategy and research, so I don't think that it's a huge edge anyway.

I hate this idea of throwing heaps and heaps of incentives at the lower ranked teams. Like San Jose was saying, lower ranked teams don't "deserve" shit. Phil, understand that you are a different circumstance than everyone else, and you should have realized that when you took the team. 9 of the teams in this league drafted their teams and they don't need to be helped out drastically because they didn't do as good a job as others.

[Phil - Blue Jackets]

andrew1125 said:

I could care less either way. For the waiver draft, I think it would be fair to hold a standard draft. The way I look at it is if we're going 1-12, 1-12, 1-12, then the top team and the bottom team will have basically the same picks all the way through, except the bottom team will have the top overall pick compared to the top team's last overall pick. With 10 keepers, I think that's reasonable. Basically, the top overall player in the waiver draft will be a lower ranked fantasy player, not that much better than the top ranked FAs in some other smaller leagues. I think that seems fair enough.

However, with the prospect draft, I wouldn't want to cater to the lower ranked teams. I think it should be a serpentine or non-serpentine draft where the top ranked teams pick first. These are players that haven't reached NHL and it's our job to assess what their potential is. With prospects, it comes down to drafting strategy and research, so I don't think that it's a huge edge anyway.

I hate this idea of throwing heaps and heaps of incentives at the lower ranked teams. Like San Jose was saying, lower ranked teams don't "deserve" shit. Phil, understand that you are a different circumstance than everyone else, and you should have realized that when you took the team. 9 of the teams in this league drafted their teams and they don't need to be helped out drastically because they didn't do as good a job as others.

Ok. I'm going to be as calm as I can because my point obviously hasn't gotten through.

1. I am in no way asking for any special treatment because I didn't draft my team. Although i often times get frustrated because my team doesn't look like it would if I had drafted it, I accept that because I signed on with this team.

2. I am not making this argument because I think my team will benefit from the proposed outcome at season's end.

3.

andrew1125 said:

However, with the prospect draft, I wouldn't want to cater to the lower ranked teams. I think it should be a serpentine or non-serpentine draft where the top ranked teams pick first. These are players that haven't reached NHL and it's our job to assess what their potential is. With prospects, it comes down to drafting strategy and research, so I don't think that it's a huge edge anyway.

It's not a huge edge anyway? The draft order shouldn't matter because these are players that haven't made it to the NHL yet? What are you arguing for? Tell all of that to the NHL teams. "Hey guys we're gonna make the prospect draft order starting with the league champion from now on. It shouldn't matter as your success in the draft is due to your ability to strategize and do some research, not get the best players. Good Luck!" Yes, strategy and research play a big part. But, ultimately, the team that has the best shot at getting the best players is going to do the best.

4. Even if all the drafts are standard; Even if a team has the best players; the manager still has to manage that team. Many, many times have I not had the best team and won a fantasy league. Say, for some reason, I win this league this year. Are you honestly telling me that it would be OK if i received a better draft position than you?

5. I am not arguing this point because the "lesser" teams need to be catered to. "Poor guy, he didn't draft as well," or, "He isn't as good of a manager." No. That is not what I am saying. The lower finishing teams should get better draft position because THEY FINISHED LOWER. It doesn't matter if they had a better team than you and you just out managed them. It doesn't matter that you had a better team than them and still outmanaged them. No one is going to win every year. In all actuality, most teams will only be truly competitive 50% of the time. That is just how it is. Fantasy teams have rebuiding years just like real teams. And when you finish poorly, you will get the better picks.

6. I also like it how everyone says "It doesn't matter to me either way," and then proceeds to explain why they think it should be a certain way.

[Nos - Sharks]

turcopolis said:

That is NOT what I am doing and no it shouldn't be kept "fairly equal." If having 10 solid keepers means teams are once again equal, and we should keep all the drafts "fairly equal," then why have a keeper league at all? Why don't we just have a yearly league and keep the same managers. That seems like the best way to keep it "even."

It is what you're doing whether you chose to acknowledge it or not. Things should be kept "fairly equal" in terms of procedure, not within the keepers. Of course things aren't going to be equal throughout, some will have better keepers, others will have a better farm. Fantasy leagues are based on wavering players and teams, ups and downs, and you can't control what happens. The lower teams are still getting the high picks, just like in real life, and if you want to simulate real life so badly why don't we keep our whole team? I would have no problem with a 1-12, 1-12 prospect draft if we could do that. That's why it's tipped too much in favour of poor teams. You are already getting top picks, it can't stray too far from what you're already getting. Why don't you start to read and understand posts by others instead of twisting shit around to fit your own agenda?

turcopolis said:

www.geocities.com/nafhl2006/

It's right there under the RULES tab, section 6, sub-section C: With the exception of season 1, the drafting order for each draft will be determined based on standings for that particular sport the previous season. For example, if team A finishes in last in the standings for season 1, he will have the first pick in each round for the Prospect Draft AND the Waiver Draft in season 2. If team B finishes in second place in the standings for season 1, he will have the second-last pick each round for the Prospect Draft AND the Waiver Draft in season 2.

Teams are not "even." The league winner is not even with the last place team. To suggest so is ludicrous.

Yeah, and? This isn't what the discussion is about. I agree that lower placed teams should get the better picks. What is your point? We are arguing about whether the drafts should be standard or serpentine. Try to keep up. As for the league winner and last placed team being equal? No, they are not, when did I say that? That is why the bottom feeders will get better picks than the top placed teams. Top placed teams also have to dump prime talent to "even" shit out. What you're suggesting is ultimately tipping the next year too much in favour of lower placed teams when it should all even out again. In terms of procedure! Nobody is going to know how each player does the following year obviously. Fucking bummies. Seriously don't reply if you have nothing of actual substance to say, I'll just stop replying and let everybody vote however they see fit.

[Phil - Blue Jackets]

What do you guys think of this idea? It is posted on the third page of the Rules Finalization thread

nafhl2.proboards79.com/index.cgi?board=generaldiscussion&action=display&thread=1159210015&page=3