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Post by Robyn - Flames on Feb 23, 2011 13:35:14 GMT -5
To Boston: ANA 1st Round Prospect Pick
To Calgary:
Mike Ribeiro Scott Hartnell Olli Jokinen James Wisniewski
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Post by Mark - Bruins on Feb 23, 2011 13:36:07 GMT -5
I accept
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Post by Chris - Capitals on Feb 25, 2011 19:38:14 GMT -5
Uh....What?
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Feb 25, 2011 21:02:24 GMT -5
Wait until you see the Carolina/San Jose trade.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Feb 26, 2011 12:20:26 GMT -5
Wait until you see the Carolina/San Jose trade. What was wrong with that deal?
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Mar 1, 2011 1:09:05 GMT -5
Wait until you see the Carolina/San Jose trade. What was wrong with that deal? I am glad you asked. A keeper slot for a depth D-man (not even top 3 in the system) in Nashville? There is better D' talent out there right now that can be signed to the farm, for free. Every single year at the deadline a keeper slot has gone for nothing less than a 1st Round Waiver Pick. This I can assure you Ryan Ellis is not, and will never be. One of the worst trades, if not worst trade in NAFHL history. Don't you play dumb.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Mar 1, 2011 2:29:38 GMT -5
What was wrong with that deal? I am glad you asked. A keeper slot for a depth D-man (not even top 3 in the system) in Nashville? There is better D' talent out there right now that can be signed to the farm, for free. Every single year at the deadline a keeper slot has gone for nothing less than a 1st Round Waiver Pick. This I can assure you Ryan Ellis is not, and will never be. One of the worst trades, if not worst trade in NAFHL history. Don't you play dumb. I don't think you give Ellis nearly enough credit. He's one of the very best blue chip, offensive PPQB type prospect defensemen available. I can assure you there's nobody available for free now that even compares to the raw talent Ellis possesses. What was given up was an asset that the GM felt he didn't require for a nice prospect. Ellis wasn't a first round waiver pick, no, he was a 1st round prospect pick though. If Ellis is never a 1st round waiver pick it's because he was kept. Contends for the worst trade in NAFHL history? That's a bit dramatic when there are Bobby Ryan for Dion Phaneuf deals floating around in the annals of NAFHL trade history.
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Post by Markus - Hurricanes on Mar 1, 2011 3:30:58 GMT -5
Guess captaining Canada at WCJ or being the all time scoring leader among defencemen in that competition is not enough convince you. Neither are OHL numbers that blow the likes of Drew Doughty out of the water.
It will propably take him some time to get called up to NHL, a playoff team won't take chances with an undersized D at this point no matter how good he is offensively, but once he does I'd very much expect him to line up in 1. powerplay and produce immediately. Certain Shattenkirk is a pretty good example.
Now, you're free to disagree with my evaluation, but I certainly hope I don't have to read unnecessary and disrespectful comments like that again when the trade has absolutely nothing to do with you to begin with.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Mar 1, 2011 15:57:18 GMT -5
Guess captaining Canada at WCJ or being the all time scoring leader among defencemen in that competition is not enough convince you. Neither are OHL numbers that blow the likes of Drew Doughty out of the water. No, it is not enough to convince me. I mean Bryan Fogarty had 155 points in one season as a Defenseman in OHL. He, of course, went on to have a successful NHL career of a whopping 156 total games played amassing 74 points. It will take him some time that's for sure. And thats a understatement. Even with the trade of Sulzer to Florida, Ellis is behind Franson, Blum, Roussel, and Josi (all of whom play a more complete game, and aren't "undersized"). That's not to mention other factors such as Ryan Suter playing with the big club. And oh yeah, NHL ALL-Star Shea Weber. Nashville is prolific in cranking out quality NHL DEFENSEmen, with added emphasis on defense. As a powerplay specialist, Ellis will never fit into the defensive minded system that is Trotz/Nashville. For this same reason, the Shattenkirk comparison doesn't work. Shattenkirk played (captain) for the US development team, won a national championship in college with Boston, and then went straight to the AHL because he is strong, and can play defense. Not because he is undersized, one dimensional, and has inflated stats in the OHL. I do disagree with your evaluation both above and right now. I reserved my opinion on the trade until I was ASKED for it. Are you suggesting I am not allowed to give it? Furthermore, this trade has everything to do with me. Judging by the way you are tossing keeper slots around for free (in my opinion) it probably has more to do with me (and every other team, particularly Top 6) than it does with you. It's not even about what type of player Ellis will become really, you see, just because you are an actor in a trade does not mean said trade does not have a whole host of negative consequences for other teams. By you trading a keeper slot, that allows Nos to keep another quality player for free essentially, thus further strengthening his team for at least one more year and allowing more of these "sign and trade prospect" deals to occur. This means one less playoff spot for you and everyone else, and less available prospects in the pool. In addition, this also means, one, two, or three more quality forwards that will not be in this years Waiver draft, thus crippling the parity process, and weakening the overall talent available to draft for every other GM.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Mar 1, 2011 16:13:24 GMT -5
I am glad you asked. A keeper slot for a depth D-man (not even top 3 in the system) in Nashville? There is better D' talent out there right now that can be signed to the farm, for free. Every single year at the deadline a keeper slot has gone for nothing less than a 1st Round Waiver Pick. This I can assure you Ryan Ellis is not, and will never be. One of the worst trades, if not worst trade in NAFHL history. Don't you play dumb. Contends for the worst trade in NAFHL history? That's a bit dramatic when there are Bobby Ryan for Dion Phaneuf deals floating around in the annals of NAFHL trade history. And Luongo/Crosby for scrap metal trades. To Sharks: Luongo 1st Round Prospect Pick 07 To Jets: McCabe Cammalleri Roloson To Toronto: Jagr, Modano, Blake, Raycroft To San Jose: Crosby, A. Carter, Roloson I suggest you analyze your own trades/offers before criticizing someone elses. Plenty enough there to keep you busy.
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Post by Markus - Hurricanes on Mar 1, 2011 17:17:51 GMT -5
I suggest you analyze your own trades/offers before criticizing someone elses. Plenty enough there to keep you busy. This.
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Post by Mark - Bruins on Mar 1, 2011 22:07:10 GMT -5
Don't be hatin' on Dwayne Roloson!
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Mar 2, 2011 3:34:37 GMT -5
Those trades I made were good ones though. I'm not going to feel bad about strengthening my club. You were criticizing Markus for making a bad trade and in turn I criticized you for making a pathetic trade. Apples and oranges. I don't think he, or anyone else, should be worried about me occupying a playoff spot well into the future because that's already a given. He didn't really change anything in that regard, I'll be at the top of the league challenging forever. If anything, this is a deal that weakens me because I need to give away one of my best prospects just so I can keep the players that I scouted, drafted, and groomed into stars. A dynasty league would be ideal. As far as the prospect pool becoming shallow, why is that? The prospects just changed hands, other prospects were dropped for them and I scouted some great talent that nobody else had the foresight to acquire. Just to be absolutely clear, Markus approached me with two names he'd want in return for a keeper slot. Ellis was one of them, I was hesitant but accepted. There was no 'acting' involved. It was a gentleman's agreement and happened rather quickly. My final Ellis push, he is absolutely better than all of Franson, Blum, Roussel, and Josi. Behind those guys? Come on, how can I take you seriously? Ellis is a game breaker with an elite skill set and is a winner. His potential trumps anything in the Nashville system. He is the only truly offensive minded defenseman looking forward in Nashville and that includes Shea Weber who is more defensive with solid offensive instincts. Ellis is no slouch in the defensive end either, yes he's small, listed at 5'9" but is probably closer to 5'10" now. You'd think that'd be a problem but not with the way Ellis plays the game and especially not with the way he'll be utilized. Ellis is, to quote a bitter manager, 'money'.
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Post by Robyn - Flames on Mar 2, 2011 12:07:05 GMT -5
He's going to have a very difficult time translating his game to the NHL. I don't see Ellis ever being top 10 in D scoring, and he lacks the size to compete defensively (as a #2/#3 guy).
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Post by Mark - Bruins on Mar 2, 2011 17:40:07 GMT -5
I see Ellis as a boom or bust prospect. Some people lean towards boom, others bust. I doubt there will be an inbetween. Do I like him? Yes, but not nearly as much as a keeper slot. Derrick brings up great points about his negatives. But then again, as the original post of this thread proves, each GM values the worth of prospects and players differently.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Mar 2, 2011 21:42:39 GMT -5
Derrick brings up great points about his negatives? Really? I'd say it's closer to being a laugh than 'great'. He's undersized, which is well known...that's it. He plays bad defensively? He's not responsible in his own end? That's not correct, he's behind middle of the road prospects? What did he say that was so great? If anything he demonstrated the knowledge that somebody who has only seen a handful of games by the player would possess. Markus only has 8 sure fire keepers on his team: Sharp, Zetterberg, Ryan, Kane, Ehrhoff, Johnson, Backstrom, and Thomas. That gives him one more keeper without that extra slot for somebody like Moulson, Hornqvist, or Bourque. He keeps one of those three instead of two and gets Ellis to keep for free. Weigh the pros and cons here guys, it's pretty much a no brainer. I'm surprised this trade is looked down on so much, to the point where Robyn would cheap shot Markus in his own farm transaction thread. Here's something else to think about going back to something that was said earlier, if Ellis were a free agent right now with prospect status would he even make it out of the first waiver round or would somebody have taken him and stashed him on the farm? I'd think he'd be taken, if not in the first then soon after that.
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Post by Robyn - Flames on Mar 3, 2011 11:46:33 GMT -5
I'm surprised this trade is looked down on so much, to the point where Robyn would cheap shot Markus in his own farm transaction thread. Haha, just a little chirp. FACT: NHL Goals by Jones: ~35 NHL Goals by Ellis: ~0 NOS Sense of Humour: ~0
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Mar 3, 2011 12:00:36 GMT -5
My sense of humor is just fine! Ellis hasn't played an NHL game yet though...so, you know, that's kind of a weak sauce argument. Jones is also a forward. Oh I get it, you were being funny! ;D
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