|
Post by Derrick - Senators on Jul 1, 2011 17:06:53 GMT -5
To Washington:
Dany Heatley Niklas Backstrom Michael Grabner
To Ottawa:
Anze Kopitar Pekka Rinne 2011 1st Round Waiver
I accept.
|
|
|
Post by Chris - Capitals on Jul 1, 2011 17:07:27 GMT -5
I accept as well.
|
|
|
Post by Robyn - Flames on Jul 1, 2011 21:14:59 GMT -5
I don't get this one either.
|
|
|
Post by Nos - Sharks on Jul 2, 2011 3:34:46 GMT -5
Horrifying trade, Derrick takes this one. I guess he took what I said to heart.
|
|
|
Post by Robyn - Flames on Jul 2, 2011 12:25:49 GMT -5
Please Veto Vote this trade. It's not even close.
|
|
|
Post by Tyler - Jets on Jul 2, 2011 23:45:33 GMT -5
Has my vote to veto.
|
|
|
Post by Nos - Sharks on Jul 3, 2011 9:50:35 GMT -5
I hate to veto but it is pretty ridiculous. Maybe the managers could explain the deal, or Derrick could pull the trade in interest of the fairplay clause.
|
|
|
Post by Chris - Capitals on Jul 3, 2011 13:19:36 GMT -5
We both said this was going to happen before posting this trade.
From my side the reasoning behind this is that I have depth at Center and decent depth in net. I understand I moved one of the better goalies in fantasy but in return I gained alot of goals which ive been lacking each season for the last 3 years. I gain a player in Grabner that can be kept for free this season. Backstrom is a very capable fantasy goalie and Heatley who played half the season with broken wrist last year to think he cant return to 35+ goal guy this season is rediculous. I improve my wings significantly.
Yes I know I gave up alot but I don't think its as far off as everyone is thinking.
Derrick im sure you can explain your side aswell
|
|
|
Post by Derrick - Senators on Jul 3, 2011 14:01:54 GMT -5
I think the league needs to calm down and take a step back or two because everyone is getting just a little too veto happy.
It is a little ironic that when I "buy high" on a player its funny, but when another GM "buys high" on a player (especially from me) its an automatic cry for veto.
With that said, I don't feel like I have to justify or analyze every trade that is made with an in-depth analysis to gain league "acceptance" or "permission." However, I will this time because something has to give.
From my point of view, I think it is fairly obvious why I made this trade. To upgrade goal tending. What I get in return is a rental player (waiver pick), a good young CENTER (easiest position to fill) in Kopitar (who has only cracked 80 points once with 81), and what appears to be an upgrade in goal for now in Rinne (one good season doesn't equal consistency). Lets not forget 2 seasons ago Rinne posted a 2.53 GAA.
What seems to get lost in all of this is what Chris is getting in return. First Heatley, a RIGHT WING who has back to back seasons of 100 points and 50 goals on his resume and is a perennial 40 goal scorer. Backstrom (60-70 game starter), who is just a couple seasons removed from a GAA of 1.97, 2.31, 2.33 and Vezina trophy nomination. And last but not least, Grabner (FREE KEEPER). A rookie who scored THIRTY FOUR goals in essentially 60 games played.
And that just scratches the surface, particularly with Grabner. Not to mention all the intangibles that everyone always seems to forget. For instance:
Grabner's 34 goals tied for 7th most in the NHL last season Grabner's 6 shg and 7 shp was 2nd most in the NHL Grabner can be sent down and kept for free Grabner is a RW (hardest position to fill in fantasy hockey)
Furthermore, for a team like Chris's, who has notoriously finished last or next to last every year in goal scoring acquiring TWO 30+ (one 40) goal scorers is huge, especially when dealing from a position of strength (goal tending).
I personally find it humorous that even when comparing Kopitars "breakout" year to Heatley's "down year" (broken wrist). Heatley still had more goals, pims, ppp, and shp.
Talk about a bunch of "what have you done for me lately" GM's. It is called "buying low/selling high" people. This is a common tactic used in fantasy hockey in hopes of getting huge returns on your gamble. And that's essentially what every fantasy transaction is, a gamble. Some just have higher risks.
And to think, I was actually reluctant to do this trade.
|
|
|
Post by Nos - Sharks on Jul 4, 2011 0:05:37 GMT -5
Well, this is how I see it...
Niklas Backstrom is about as worthless a goaltending option as you can get. Who's in a worse position than him? If he isn't in the worst position then he's in the bottom 3. He's also 33 years old. On the other hand you have Pekka Rinne, Vezina finalist, 5 years younger and on a significantly better defensive team. I don't think there's any doubt who's more valuable.
Then you have the whole Heatley vs. Kopitar 'debate'. Oh how the mighty have fallen. The last time he scored 50 goals was 4 years ago, when he was 26, he's now 30 and has regressed considerably. He scored 26 goals last season. I think you can stop using those season's as a bargaining chip. He's a defensive liability, lacks motivation, and has major character issues. These may be 'intangibles' but it absolutely affects the way he's playing the game. It also affects those around him. There's a reason the 'what have you done for me lately?' mantra is used to evaluate the upswing/downswing of a player's projection. It isn't something that should be shrugged off like Derrick is doing. The past is the past, you have to look forward. Heatley was just traded to the Minnesota Wild for Martin Havlat, that's how far he's fallen from grace. Kopitar is 7 years younger than Heatley, is just starting his career and playing for one of the soon-to-be powerhouses of the West. He's immensely talented, has good character and is good defensively.
Michael Grabner, I don't have much to say, I still see him as a one dimensional player with consistency issues, if he puts up a similar season to this past one I'd be very impressed because I don't think he will. The pick acquired was a 5th overall selection, rental player? Maybe, if you draft correctly though that player could easily be a keeper quality asset, there's a ton of talent in this draft, the most I've ever seen. The player Derrick gets at 5th overall will be more valuable than Grabner.
So that's the trifecta of the deal, three downgrades, which is why I see it as so lopsided.
|
|
|
Post by Derrick - Senators on Jul 4, 2011 0:37:29 GMT -5
Well, this is how I see it... Niklas Backstrom is about as worthless a goaltending option as you can get. Who's in a worse position than him? Mike Yeo is the new head coach of the Minnesota Wild. He did a tremendous job in Houston with the AHL affiliate and is known for his defensive style of play (the same trap that Minnesota has gotten away from the past two years). Look for Minnesota and Backstrom to have a bounce back year. Although .916 save% is not exactly poor. It doesn't matter who I draft at 5. I CANNOT KEEP THEM. I already have 12 keepers who are all better than all the players that are available in the draft, in a league where we keep 10. Thus, a rental player. Grabner can be kept for free. Therefore, Grabner is leaps and bounds more valuable to me than the waiver pick in the long run. It's not your place (or my place or anybody else's place) to say what is or what isn't an upgrade for Chris's team. Did he lack goals? Yes. Did he address those needs while dealing from a point of depth? Yes. These are the FACTS.
|
|
|
Post by Nos - Sharks on Jul 4, 2011 4:25:53 GMT -5
Mike Yeo is the new head coach of the Minnesota Wild. He did a tremendous job in Houston with the AHL affiliate and is known for his defensive style of play (the same trap that Minnesota has gotten away from the past two years). Look for Minnesota and Backstrom to have a bounce back year. Although .916 save% is not exactly poor. It doesn't matter who I draft at 5. I CANNOT KEEP THEM. I already have 12 keepers who are all better than all the players that are available in the draft, in a league where we keep 10. Thus, a rental player. Grabner can be kept for free. Therefore, Grabner is leaps and bounds more valuable to me than the waiver pick in the long run. It's not your place (or my place or anybody else's place) to say what is or what isn't an upgrade for Chris's team. Did he lack goals? Yes. Did he address those needs while dealing from a point of depth? Yes. These are the FACTS. Okay, that seems like wishful thinking but even if that's true Rinne still wins out, hands down, and it's not even close. There are several players in this year's Waiver Draft that are better than your 12 keeper quality players. Lidstrom anybody? Even if there weren't there are still keeper quality players in the draft that have a chance at supplanting one of your 'current best'. Grabner's only better for you if he plays better than the player you get at #5...hint: he won't. It's not my place to tell Chris how to run his team, you're right, I don't think I'm doing that though. Just giving my opinion on the deal. It does kind of affect other teams though. You say he strengthened goals but for the price he paid he really only gained about 25 goals (if that) on the year once you draft a player at #5. Overall this weakens Chris's team significantly, in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Derrick - Senators on Jul 4, 2011 5:16:57 GMT -5
I fully stand behind the claims I have made about Backstrom, Heatley, and Grabner. I actually would rather have his side of the deal, so if you guys want to veto, veto. You would be doing me a favor.
|
|
|
Post by Nos - Sharks on Jul 4, 2011 6:31:57 GMT -5
I fully stand behind the claims I have made about Backstrom, Heatley, and Grabner. I actually would rather have his side of the deal, so if you guys want to veto, veto. You would be doing me a favor. You would rather have his side? Why'd you make the trade? If Chris wants to stand by this trade I fully respect that and support the decision. If he wants to nullify the trade, just say so, you'd both be getting what you want. No need for veto, it's up to Chris.
|
|
|
Post by Robyn - Flames on Jul 4, 2011 7:40:08 GMT -5
Kopitar > Heatley; Rinne >> Backstrom; 5th overall > Grabner.
Not to mention Kopitar and Rinne are younger and still have upside potential.
There's no way you're not ecstatic with this trade Derrick.
|
|
|
Post by Derrick - Senators on Jul 4, 2011 12:04:12 GMT -5
Kopitar > Heatley; Rinne >> Backstrom; 5th overall > Grabner. Not to mention Kopitar and Rinne are younger and still have upside potential. There's no way you're not ecstatic with this trade Derrick. Rinne > Backstrom Kopitar < Heatley (I am not arguing this again, whereas "upside" isn't a scoring category and Heatley has been statistically better/more valuable EVERY year since Kopitar has been in the league and is a RW as opposed to a C) 1st Waiver = Grabner (depending on the the team) The key to being successful in fantasy hockey is not acquiring the players who score the most points, like some people seem to think. Goals are twice as valuable as assists and peripheral stats matter more than points. So to answer your question, no I am not "ecstatic" with this trade by any means. I am not ecstatic losing 40+ goals. I am not "ecstatic" at losing all my RW depth (and trading for a position I have a slew of top prospects), leaving me with only Perry after St. Louis retires. But it is a move that I feel is necessary in order to shore up the goalie position until some of my prospects can mature.
|
|