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Post by Derrick - Senators on Jun 7, 2012 10:53:06 GMT -5
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Post by Mark - Bruins on Jun 7, 2012 17:53:10 GMT -5
Just a reminder: I'm right & you're wrong  PS lets just poll & not try to filibuster this time... |
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Jun 8, 2012 12:05:00 GMT -5
bump
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Jun 8, 2012 22:01:47 GMT -5
2) Voting Procedures
B) Any potential rule change requires a 2/3 majority vote (including the acceptance of the Commissioner) to be made a rule.
2/3 majority = 8 votes of 12, the most votes this poll can receive in favor of the rule change, as of right now, is 7. The people have spoken.
Let that be the end of it.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Jun 8, 2012 22:23:12 GMT -5
Excuse me while I take off my commissioner hat for one second.
It is quite obvious that in this instance, the "people" don't know what is good for them, and more importantly, what is good for the league as a whole. Sad, but true.
There is a reason the same teams are always in the bottom 6, and there is a reason the same couple teams always win the championship each year. It is not because those championship teams have above and beyond the 10 best keepers, no, it is because those teams have 11 and 12 keepers and are able to poach the talent from the would-be available players in the waiver draft. This is not opinion, this is fact. A fact, that is insanely undervalued, and largely ignored.
The players that are kept with these traded keeper slots are ALWAYS better than any remaining player in the waiver draft. And consequently, keeper slots NEVER go for the value they should. So the rich keep getting rich and the poor keep getting poorer.
Wake up people, I am trying to help you at my (and other top teams) expense for the sake of league parity.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Jun 8, 2012 23:27:21 GMT -5
You're the one who needs to wake up. The people are more than capable of making an intelligent decision, to say otherwise degrades the league as a whole. If the same team is at the top it's because of skills that go beyond an extra keeper here or there. The teams trading slots are teams that don't want to keep that 10th player because that player is CRAP. What don't you get? More facts, there were 4 slots traded last year, the Waiver draft consists of 108 selections. The relevance is negligible especially considering the players/picks these teams gain for a CRAP player they would be forced to keep. According to who? You? Going by last year's draft and keeper selections, with my extras I kept Jordan Staal and Brent Burns. In the waiver draft these players were selected: Niklas Lidstrom Mikko Koivu Martin Brodeur Johan Franzen Alexander Edler Scott Hartnell Ryan Callahan Matt Moulson Mike Ribeiro Patrik Elias Mike Smith Teemu Selanne Chris Pronger Jaromir Jagr Blake Wheeler Daniel Alfredsson David Perron Kevin Bieksa Joffrey Lupul Are you saying Jordan Staal and Brent Burns are far and away better than all of these players? Get out of here. Again, according to who? According to you a keeper slot shouldn't go for anything less than a 1st Round Waiver pick. These aren't fair? Detroit's 2012 1st round entry pick
Ottawa's 2012 1st round waiver pick
Carter Ashton
->
Blake Wheeler
keeper slot
To Winnipeg:
Victor Hedman
Zac Dalpe
Travis Hamonic
2012 2nd Round Waiver
2012 3rd Round Waiver
To San Jose:
Keeper SlotTo Toronto:
Ryan O'Reilly
David Desharnais
2012 1st Round Entry
2012 1st Round Waiver
2012 3rd Round Waiver
To San Jose:
Scott Hartnell
Keeper SlotTo Carolina:
2012 1st Round Waiver
To Ottawa:
2012 Keeper Slot To Anaheim:
Antti Niemi
2011 2nd Round Waiver
2011 2nd Round Prospect
To San Jose:
2011 Keeper Slot
Teemu SelanneTo Ottawa:
2011 Keeper Slot
2011 5th Round Waiver (ATL)
To Atlanta:
2011 1st Round Waiver (OTT)
2011 3rd Round Prospect (OTT)To Toronto:
Niklas Kronwall
Kris Versteeg
Tim Thomas
To San Jose:
Keeper Slot Montreal Receives:
1st Round prospect pick 2010 (Pitt's) Kirill Kabanov
1st Round prospect pick 2010 (Van's) Vladimir Tarasenko
5th Round waiver pick 2011
Pittburgh Receives:
Keeper slot 2010You're telling me these are bad value trades? Really? There's an embarrassment of riches to poach from teams looking for keeper slots, a hell of a lot more value than keeping Tyler Bozak. Again, get out of here. You say that...but I'm just not getting it bro. This type of change is at their expense, not ours, taking an option away that's useful to gain assets teams otherwise wouldn't be giving up is essential to create more parity, it emulates the real NHL in the best way (rentals, 1 year). If this were to pass I would have no reason to trade picks away, especially waiver picks. If I have all of my waiver picks it's bad for the entire league because my drafting is second to none.  Sorry Derrick, I just don't buy it. |
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Jun 9, 2012 0:02:34 GMT -5
Are you saying Jordan Staal and Brent Burns are far and away better than all of these players? Get out of here. No, I am saying you made poor keeper selections with those two additional slots. No, the majority of those aren't fair. The only ones that even remotely fair are the ones involving 1st round waiver/entry picks. And even then that is up for debate. The rest of the trades are packaged crap that you wouldn't be able to keep anyway. So you pawn them off on some unsuspecting sap who greatly overvalues the player or players involved. As a result, said sap ultimately has to use two or even three keepers on the newly acquired players (and/or lose similarly valued players from his roster) if he wants to keep them. This is pretty hard to do with only 8 or 9 keeper slots wouldn't you say? All the while the GM who poached the keeper slot is sitting nice without a worry in the world. Still able to keep an extra top player, AND still having his 1st round waiver pick to snag another. Don't call me bro. |
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Jun 9, 2012 0:36:30 GMT -5
No, the majority of those aren't fair. Why isn't it fair? It goes against your argument? Is that why? This is what you said: The players that are kept with these traded keeper slots are ALWAYS better than any remaining player in the waiver draft. Always, ALWAYS better, you say. I reflected why that simply isn't true, quite convincingly I might add. The only ones that even remotely fair are the ones involving 1st round waiver/entry picks. Why is that? Great players are drafted in several rounds, again, I was just replying to your outrageous claim. Even if you take the 1st round, okay, so what? There are several players in the 1st round alone that are worth as much if not more than those extra players kept. And even then that is up for debate. What?!? Why? Why is the 1st round up for debate? Did you not say the kept players are ALWAYS better than waiver players? When I showcased that isn't the case you deem it 'up for debate'? Come on now. The rest of the trades are packaged crap that you wouldn't be able to keep anyway. Who's to say these players couldn't be kept? Even if they couldn't isn't that why trades are available to be made? You trade things you don't need, or deal from a position of strength to address other more pressing issues. Such is fantasy hockey. So you pawn them off on some unsuspecting sap who greatly overvalues the player or players involved. Overvalues huh? Who's to say I'm not undervaluing the players I'm trading? I didn't make such a blockbuster trade this summer for no reason. It was becoming bad business for me to be trading away so much for rentals or 1 extra year of a player. Luckily I can assess talent so well that I can fill the gaps though.  As a result, said sap ultimately has to use two or even three keepers on the newly acquired players (and/or lose similarly valued players from his roster) if he wants to keep them. What?  You're the king of hyperbole. Two or THREE keepers on the newly acquired players huh? How many of these types have there been? Honestly? The trades are more for picks (1st rounders) and prospects (blue chippers) rather than roster keepers. Even if a manager does get a keeper roster player, that's great, obviously the manager feels it was an improved keeper, something we all try to accomplish throughout the year...improved keepers. This is pretty hard to do with only 8 or 9 keeper slots wouldn't you say? Sure is, if it were happening. Even so, it's up to the manager to assess his team's needs and whether it's wise to spend a slot on newly acquired assets. All the while the GM who poached the keeper slot is sitting nice without a worry in the world. Except the worry of losing several picks, prospects and players for a 1 year rental. Still able to keep an extra top player, AND still having his 1st round waiver pick to snag another. Several of those trades I posted include 1st round waiver picks, so how would you have both? Jordan Staal and Brent Burns are top players I guess? Ryane Clowe too? You lose and you gain, such is the life of a fantasy hockey manager. Filibuster! |
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You're the king of hyperbole. Two or THREE keepers on the newly acquired players huh? How many of these types have there been? Honestly? The trades are more for picks (1st rounders) and prospects (blue chippers) rather than roster keepers. Even if a manager does get a keeper roster player, that's great, obviously the manager feels it was an improved keeper, something we all try to accomplish throughout the year...improved keepers.
So exciting.
You better make that pick or trade it! I'm excited to see if we can use up all the draft picks this year.