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Post by Derrick - Senators on Nov 27, 2018 11:44:45 GMT -5
The trade in question: Original thread can be found HERE. There has been an "understood" rule in this league for years that no minor league player (skaters with 200 or less NHL games played, regardless of age) may be signed to the farm or sent to the farm directly via trade. However, for whatever reason the actual written rule was accidentally omitted from the current version of the rule book. Should Koskinen have to test waivers before being sent down since that has been the precedent or should Koskinen be allowed to be sent directly to the farm as a minor league player on a technicality? |
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Nov 28, 2018 20:29:40 GMT -5
Let me start off by saying I don't care either way, either you want to be a league that's stable and strict or creative and flexible, both have their pros and cons. What I do care about, however, is the fairness of procedure, going through the proper channels to make change if it's needed. I care about the written rules above all else and the power of the people as a collective to make change if it's necessary, it's the only thing that stands in the way of total chaos and dictatorship. Trading minor league players from farm to farm has not been permitted for years and 100% will not be permitted moving forward. Derrick, you cannot make these decisions yourself, this has never been permitted so I'm not sure why you're attempting to hard ball the league here. You know what you need to do to make changes to the rulebook, despite your past, you know. Trading minor league players from farm to farm actually has been permitted for years, it's just that nobody knew about it and/or utilized it. Going back to the original amendment, why did we add it in the first place? It's because managers were circumventing the Waivers system by trading players from their main roster to a farm roster, something that should never be allowed. However, the circumvention of the Waivers system isn't present with a farm to farm transaction as the player has already gone through Waivers and/or placed on a farm team legally. What you're suggesting is that a player who has gone through Waivers once already should test Waivers twice just because he was traded. It's my belief that players should have the same value to all managers, a player shouldn't hold more value to one manager and less to 11 others because of minor leaguer status. This creates players who aren't tradeable. No other player operates like this, every roster player and Prospect has the same perceived value to every manager. Creating more trade talk is also a positive thing, as is having more avenues to improve ones team. Going by the written rules I have to side with Tyler - Jets being able to keep Mikko Koskinen on his farm roster, as that's where he assigned the already farmed Koskinen upon receipt of his services. |
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Nov 29, 2018 1:47:21 GMT -5
However, the circumvention of the Waivers system isn't present with a farm to farm transaction as the player has already gone through Waivers and/or placed on a farm team legally. What you're suggesting is that a player who has gone through Waivers once already should test Waivers twice just because he was traded. No. There aren’t any waivers during the off-season and players frequently lose prospect status throughout the year. Neither one of these instances has a player “gone through waivers” and it is absolutely a circumvention of the waiver system. There is a reason why certain players have certain restrictions. It is to promote turnover of talent and force managers to make tough decisions. Allowing farm to farm trading facilitates player hording, most notably NHL ready/current NHL players which dilutes the available FA pool during the season and for the Waiver Draft. Trading minor leaguers from farm to farm does not harm 11 other teams as you claim. It allows the weaker teams in the league to acquire talent for free that better teams could not hold on to after the players are forfeited to the Waiver draft, dropped or called up (having to test waivers before being sent down again). Don’t try to pull the wool over these new managers eyes wiith your sideways rhetoric. I make rules for the betterment of the league. You look to exploit/change rules for the betterment of your team. . |
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Nov 29, 2018 3:22:34 GMT -5
No. There aren’t any waivers during the off-season and players frequently lose prospect status throughout the year. Neither one of these instances has a player “gone through waivers” and it is absolutely a circumvention of the waiver system. It's hardly circumvention unless you consider the rule of No Waivers during the off-season to be circumvention. You purposely ignore my second point of 'and/or placed on a farm team legally', which is what that would be. You have a point about losing status throughout the year, however, I feel not having the ability to recall and then send down a Minor Leaguer without clearing Waivers is enough of a distinction. There is a reason why certain players have certain restrictions. It is to promote turnover of talent and force managers to make tough decisions. This is a good point, like I said, I don't care either way really I'm just trying to think about it critically and stick by the written rules. The opposing thought to this counterpoint is this, turnover of talent can be attained in various manners including trading Minor Leaguers farm to farm. Not being able to trade farm to farm is a suppression of assets method. In other words you're just holding onto players, true hoarding, because you can't do anything useful with them until the off-season or until you really have to make a decision on them as tradeable assets 50 games later. 'Tough decisions' is subjective. Allowing farm to farm trading facilitates player hording, most notably NHL ready/current NHL players which dilutes the available FA pool during the season and for the Waiver Draft. This is objectively false. There are a certain number of team slots, 19 Main Roster, 19 Farm Roster & 10 Junior Roster slots. 'Dilution' of the available FA pool doesn't exist by means of pure math and common sense. Do you actually believe NHL ready Minor Leaguers are more valuable than Prospects? Newsflash, they aren't, in fact they're in danger of being worthless if they haven't been good enough to have already found a spot on your team. Of course there are exceptions but they're few and far between and these are the types of players that wouldn't be affected by this regardless because they're actually valuable and it's more of a 'matter of time' issue. Trading minor leaguers from farm to farm does not harm 11 other teams as you claim. It allows the weaker teams in the league to acquire talent for free that better teams could not hold on to after the players are forfeited to the Waiver draft, dropped or called up (having to test waivers before being sent down again) Maybe, maybe they can gain these assets for 'free' once they've used up their eligibility term, but there is that thing called the Waiver Draft to contend with. You know, where you have to spend assets (picks) to gain assets (players), and then maybe you get the guy you were after if 11 other guys aren't thinking the same thing. The Waiver Draft is a crapshoot, nothing is guaranteed. Whereas you can approach the rights holder of the player you want and trade assets to gain assets. Flexibility, promotion of trades and activity as well as the ability to build your team deliberately. Dropped players still exist as does the Waiver system, we're talking strictly farm to farm here. Don’t try to pull the wool over these new managers eyes wiith your sideways rhetoric. I make rules for the betterment of the league. You look to exploit/change rules for the betterment of your team. . That's a pretty puerile thing to say, don't you think? How does that even make sense? I'm not arguing for my team. We are all, all 12 of us, playing under the same exact rules. How then, can I gain any advantage for my team? It's literally impossible. To summarize, I want to stand by the written rules and go through the proper channels for change if necessary whereas you want to change rules solo like a dictator on a dime. Come on Derrick, looks like our vision for the 'betterment' of the league varies quite a bit once again, friend. Anyway, if the league truly wants things to operate the way you suggest and it really was a terrible mistake then getting votes to change the rule in question should be no problem. Like I said, I don't mind either way, I'm playing Devil's Advocate a bit here, I can see pros and cons both ways it's just about how the league wants to play it. |
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Post by Tyler - Jets on Nov 29, 2018 14:46:40 GMT -5
There only needs to be one more no vote to finish this transaction anyway. Maybe we should look at a poll of current GM’s to see if minor league farm to farm trades are wanted. Or we keep things they way they have been perceived to be and have minor leaguers traded from the farm be automatically assigned to main rosters. Then sent down through the proper waiver system. Either way let’s clear this issue once and for all.
I believe farm to farm trades of minor leaguers should be allowed. I know this is fantasy hockey but a player in the minors in the AHL on a one way contract does not have to clear waivers to be assigned to another farm system after he is traded.
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Nov 29, 2018 15:57:05 GMT -5
I've always been under the notion that minor leaguers are automatically assigned to a teams main roster once traded, the rules say otherwise so in this instance Tyler's move is legal. However, it is unfortunate that this wasn't more clear as I valued Koskinen as much higher on my club as he would be a "free keeper" on my farm this season, having known he could be "stashed" on another teams farm his perceived value would've been much higher and my offer would've reflected that. As unfortunate as that is, the trade is all said and done and sounds like it's time for a new poll.
I'm actually quite torn on what the rule should be and look forward to further discussion from the rest of the General Managers in the league.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Nov 30, 2018 2:20:49 GMT -5
Situationally, yes. That is exactly what I am saying. Newsflash, prospects outside the NHL who play in the OHL, CHL, NCAA, QMJHL, etc. can't score points for your fantasy team on Yahoo where the championship is decided regardless of pedigree or where they were drafted. What good is a #1 prospect outside the NHL going to do for you in the playoffs when rosters are locked and no free agents can be added? A team who has stockpiled "disposable" minor leaguers that is stricken by injury then has a significant advantage. This is just one of many examples.
We 12 are all playing by the same rules but not all 12 teams have an equal level of talent. The two are not synonymous and to suggest so is dishonest. Certain rules benefit the better teams, and certain rules benefit the weaker teams. Thus, a better team (you) would obviously prefer rules (this one) that benefit your team. Whereas a better team (me) wants to promote rules (how we have been operating) that better the league. I want the league to operate with every advantage being given to the weaker teams so that "rebuilding" is as painless as possible, while promoting parity year in and year out. Having the same few teams win every year is neither competitive nor fun for the better teams or the weaker teams.
This argument is also dishonest. We have had more turnover in the past 18-24 months in the league than we did the entire 10 years prior. Expecting newer managers to grasp the ramifications of every single rule, including this one is unreasonable. What sounds good on paper isn't always practical or beneficial in practice. Once in place the damage could already be done and we could take several steps back. This is one of those rules, regardless of what others might think. Now I am not suggesting that I am smarter or better than anyone, but what I am suggesting is that I have MUCH more experience with this league, these rules and how things shake out. This league was built from the ground up and almost every single rule/change that has been implemented has been for the better, culminating in the league we have today. And fundamental to that foundation is the strict limits that are placed on the farm teams and subsequently prospects and minor leaguers.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Nov 30, 2018 7:22:35 GMT -5
Situationally, yes. That is exactly what I am saying. Newsflash, prospects outside the NHL who play in the OHL, CHL, NCAA, QMJHL, etc. can't score points for your fantasy team on Yahoo where the championship is decided regardless of pedigree or where they were drafted. What good is a #1 prospect outside the NHL going to do for you in the playoffs when rosters are locked and no free agents can be added? A team who has stockpiled "disposable" minor leaguers that is stricken by injury then has a significant advantage. This is just one of many examples. So, you're actually suggesting that a contending team...one that has been 'stricken' by injuries during the playoffs... somehow has a significant advantage over other playoff teams, teams all playing by the same rules mind you, by strategically placing mediocre-at-best minor leaguers on their farm to replace their much better injured roster players with? W-what?!? I don't buy it. Managers stash minor leaguers in this fashion anyway. I also challenge you to come up with another example...of apparently many. Furthermore, you're thinking way too short term here, you're talking like it's a 1-year league. Newsflash, not every single team is gonna be contending near the top of the league, these teams are gonna want those top prospects, 6 teams don't make the playoffs! What good is a #1 prospect? Are you for real? Prospects are worth way more in every single way over minor leaguer injury subs, they're better, younger, can be recalled and sent down without going through Waivers, have more term and potential. They kick the shit out of minor leaguers by definition alone. This goes for any team, top to bottom. We 12 are all playing by the same rules but not all 12 teams have an equal level of talent. The two are not synonymous and to suggest so is dishonest. Certain rules benefit the better teams, and certain rules benefit the weaker teams. Thus, a better team (you) would obviously prefer rules (this one) that benefit your team. Whereas a better team (me) wants to promote rules (how we have been operating) that better the league. I want the league to operate with every advantage being given to the weaker teams so that "rebuilding" is as painless as possible, while promoting parity year in and year out. Having the same few teams win every year is neither competitive nor fun for the better teams or the weaker teams. I suggested nothing. All I said was that we play by the same exact rules, which is the obvious truth. There's absolutely no way for me to gain an advantage over other teams that's in any way illegal or dishonest. That I didn't rightfully earn. Everybody has work to do. Scouting, trading, management of assets, etc. Bottom teams have better picks in the drafts to work with that aid in the improvement of their teams just like the real NHL. There are a multitude of options to improve your team including trades. Increasing trade talk is a positive thing. You're suggesting only top teams would benefit, which is not true, it's simply another option for the promotion of additional trades that makes perfect logical sense. Having top teams to tackle is exactly what makes a league competitive. What you're suggesting at the end of that paragraph is basically akin to giving out participation trophies and it's insulting. This argument is also dishonest. We have had more turnover in the past 18-24 months in the league than we did the entire 10 years prior. Expecting newer managers to grasp the ramifications of every single rule, including this one is unreasonable. What sounds good on paper isn't always practical or beneficial in practice. Once in place the damage could already be done and we could take several steps back. This is one of those rules, regardless of what others might think. Now I am not suggesting that I am smarter or better than anyone, but what I am suggesting is that I have MUCH more experience with this league, these rules and how things shake out. This league was built from the ground up and almost every single rule/change that has been implemented has been for the better, culminating in the league we have today. And fundamental to that foundation is the strict limits that are placed on the farm teams and subsequently prospects and minor leaguers. Wow, you've found an insult you really like, dishonest. Must have thought that up when you looked at yourself in the mirror. You do realize you're the 1 vote (10%) vs. 9 (90%) of the league thus far and yet you unabashedly sit there and tell us your opinion is the one that matters and the collective of the league does not. You don't see a problem with that huh? 'Regardless of what others might think', right. You must realize how bad this looks. There are others who have as much experience with this league as you do including myself, don't forget experience with fantasy hockey in general as well as experience with the game itself. To discredit a league member's opinion, hell 9 and counting, as lesser than your own is what's truly dishonest. If the rule, or non-rule in question, creates problems it can always be amended legally. To make a point beyond this issue, to illustrate the way Derrick goes about his business, with the trading of Keeper Slots 6 years ago. This is what happened for those who don't know, Derrick desperately tried to eliminate the trading of Keeper Slots for over a year, didn't get the necessary votes the first time and over a year later re-opened the closed vote thread and used the votes placed over a year prior with the addition of one claimed flipper at the time and he called it a done deal, he still did not have the necessary 8/12 majority vote and yet pushed it through anyway to suit what he saw as just. Such an abuse of power it makes me sick to this day.  The vote in that thread still sits 6-5 to this day, with a necessary 8-4 for a legal rule change to take place. Here's what my roster looked like that year... San Jose Sharks (18/19) CenterSidney Crosby (C)
Ryan Kesler
Alex Steen
Eric StaalLeft WingRick Nash
Patrik Elias
Scott Hartnell
Zach PariseRight WingJarome Iginla (A)
Jaromir Jagr
David BackesDefensemenZdeno Chara (A)
Kris Letang
Brent Seabrook
Alexander EdlerGoaltendersRoberto Luongo
Brian Elliott
Jon QuickInjured Reserve
Simon GagneWorcester Sharks (19/19) Mikael Granlund (19/0)*
Teemu Pulkkinen (19/0)*
Adam Henrique (21/1)*
Jeff Skinner (19/82)*
Casey Cizikas (20/0)*
P.K. Subban (22/79)*
Jordan Weal (19/0)*
Justin Peters (24/21)*
Shane Prince (19/0)*
Marcus Kruger (21/7)*
Sean Couturier (18/0)*
Logan Couture (22/104)*
Carl Hagelin (22/0)*
Jimmy Hayes (21/0)*
Dougie Hamilton (17/0)*
Jonathan Bernier (22/32)*
Markus Granlund (18/0)*
Devan Dubnyk (25/44)**
Eric Tangradi (22/16)*Vancouver Giants (10/10) Joe Morrow (18/0)*
Justin Schultz (20/0)*
Johan Larsson (18/0)*
André Petersson (20/0)*
Jonathan Miller (18/0)*
Jason Zucker (19/0)*
Linden Vey (19/0)*
Tyson Barrie (19/0)*
Victor Rask (18/0)*
Calle Järnkrok (19/0)*My point is this, Derrick didn't do that to 'better' the league and the weaker placed teams, it was an attack on the weak. He did it to take something I was using away in an attempt to make my team weaker, or so he thought. Look at that team, do you even see 5 worthy keeper players on that main roster? Look at my farm, just an absolute slew of young, great talent. So what I was doing at the time was trading away high picks and blue chip prospects like the ones you see to gain a single Keeper Slot, essentially a 1-year contract extension, a rental player. In his eyes all he saw was the short term. So did it work? Take a look at my team now and tell me. I was a moron for trading such valuable assets for a 1-year rental year after year, sometimes more than once, depleting my excellent farm teams. Now my farm is as strong as it's ever been as is my main roster. I upgrade now mostly from within. I was only seeing the short term, blinded, and that's not how you build a successful franchise. I might have never learned this lesson if it weren't for the elimination of trading Keeper Slots. So now you've got guys like Jeff - Red Wings forced into keeping players like Aaron Ekblad, James Neal, Charlie Coyle & Mike Smith instead of having the option to trade away one of those useless slots to gain a 1st Round Waiver pick, for those who don't know that was typically thought of as the low end price for a Keeper Slot. Jeff took William Karlsson with his 1st, his current 4th best player! Young stud. Scott - Maple Leafs, forced into keeping guys like Tyler Toffoli and Jordan Eberle. He got a multi-cat beast with his 1st, his current 7th best player. Sure you can say that those guys might have been kept by teams trading for Keeper Slots if the right price was met but the point is the Waiver Draft is absolutely filled with great talent, young talent, year after year and the difference of an additional 1st vs. mediocre to fringe forced keepers is a significant improvement of assets that could benefit the weaker team for years to come rather than just that one extra rental year for the Keeper Slot awardee. Taken outside of the 1st Round, Elias Lindholm, Matt Dumba, Ryan Johansen, J.T. Miller, Semyon Varlamov, Zach Parise, Mika Zibanejad, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Chris Kreider, Brendan Gallagher, Carter Hutton, Tyler Johnson, Roberto Luongo, Mattias Ekholm, Mikko Koskinen, Oscar Klefbom, Dustin Brown, Tomas Tatar, Ryan McDonagh, J.T. Compher, Keith Kinkaid, etc. All quality assets, much better options than having the extra slot for a guy you don't even want but are forced into keeping by a Commissioner who thinks his opinion is infallible. Bottom line, you should respect procedure, the league and its managers more than you do. People know what they're doing more than you give them credit for. This isn't to say I don't appreciate what you've done and what you continue to do for the league, you've done such an impressive job and I don't believe many could have done what you've done but it's when you're ducking rules and procedure because you feel strongly one way, discrediting the opinions of others as a collective, that I take issue with. You also needlessly insulted me, my character and credibility, it's uncalled for. I've given the league a lot of my time, thought and energy and I don't deserve to be treated this way especially unprovoked. This is such a non-issue that got blown way out of proportion because you couldn't handle things not going your way. Like I've said, I don't care either way about this issue, it's an option. That's it. No big deal. |
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Nov 30, 2018 14:30:37 GMT -5
Look at my farm, just an absolute slew of young, great talent. So what I was doing at the time was trading away high picks and blue chip prospects like the ones you see to gain a single Keeper Slot, essentially a 1-year contract extension, a rental player. In his eyes all he saw was the short term. So did it work? Take a look at my team now and tell me. I was a moron for trading such valuable assets for a 1-year rental year after year, sometimes more than once, depleting my excellent farm teams. Now my farm is as strong as it's ever been as is my main roster. I upgrade now mostly from within. I was only seeing the short term, blinded, and that's not how you build a successful franchise. I might have never learned this lesson if it weren't for the elimination of trading Keeper Slots. This is laughable. If by "blue-chip prospects" you mean bundling fringe keepers you didn't have room to keep for bona fide superstars then I would agree. If by "build from within" you mean bundling fringe keepers you didn't have room to keep for bona fide superstars then I would agree. One terrible trade can set a franchise back years and push another ahead. Here are just a few terrible trades that are still being felt to this day that I have tried to "correct" with some of the rules that have been implemented. Timothy Liljegren To San Jose: Elias Pettersson I accept. Cory Schneider Charlie McAvoy 2018 2nd Round Entry To San Jose: Patrik Laine I accept. Jonathan Bernier Valeri Nichushkin Mats Zuccarello 2014 1st Round Entry (5th Overall) 2014 5th Round Waiver (55th Overall) To San Jose: Taylor Hall 2014 1st Round Entry (3rd Overall) I accept. Jeff Skinner Logan Couture David Backes Ryan Kesler To San Jose: Steven Stamkos 2012 3rd Round Entry (SJ) (35th Overall) 2012 6th Round Waiver (71st Overall) I accept. To San Jose: Luongo 1st Round Prospect Pick 07 For McCabe Cammalleri Roloson Jagr, Modano, Blake, Raycroft To San Jose: Crosby, A. Carter, Roloson This is also laughable. Do you honestly believe what you are saying? You are almost proving my point for me. Your distorted and obviously skewed perspective aside, JEFF WAS ABLE TO TAKE WILLIAM KARLSSON WITH HIS 1ST BECAUSE I WASN'T ALLOWED TO TRADE FOR A KEEPER SLOT TO KEEP HIM. An 11th or 12th player on a strong team is more valuable than 99% of all prospects or minor leaguers, period. What you were doing was bundling a bunch of fringe keeper/minor leaguer garbage you weren't able to keep and trading it to other weaker teams for their much needed rebuilding assets, which in turn plunged those teams into a perpetual rebuilding process not being able to gain traction. This is in addition to all the other players that needed to be dropped to accommodate the bundle of players coming back in trade. All the while, these pieces you were trading could have been had for "free" either in free agency or in the waiver draft after you dropped them. Brock Nelson To San Jose: 2015 4th Round Waiver (41st Overall) I accept. Tomas Hertl Eric Gelinas 2015 2nd Round Entry Pick To San Jose: Marian Hossa I accept. Teemu Pulkkinen Brett Ritchie 2015 5th Round Waiver To San Jose: Patrick Marleau 2015 6th Round Waiver I accept. To San Jose: Brent Burns 2014 1st Round Waiver Selection (3rd Overall) Tyler Johnson 2014 2nd Round Waiver Selection (18th Overall) I accept. Mikael Granlund Sean Couturier To San Jose: 2014 1st Round Entry 2015 1st Round Entry I accept. Carl Hagelin To San Jose: 2013 4th Round Waiver (47th Overall) I accept. John Carlson Daniel Alfredsson To San Jose: 2013 1st Round Entry 2013 3rd Round Entry I accept. Linden Vey Tyson Barrie 2013 7th Round Waiver To San Jose: 2012 7th Round Waiver (78th Overall) 2013 4th Round Waiver (SJ) 2013 2nd Round Entry I accept. Victor Rask To San Jose: 43rd Overall Waiver 67th Overall Waiver I accept. Blake Geoffrion To San Jose: 2012 3rd Round Entry Draft Pick I accept. Ryan Ellis To San Jose: 2011 Keeper Slot I accept. Kyle Quincey To San Jose: 2010 3rd Round Prospect Pick 2010 5th Round Waiver Pick I accept. Fabian Brunnstrom Drayson Bowman To San Jose: 2011 2nd Round Prospect Pick 2011 3rd Round Prospect Pick I accept. Wojtek Wolski Milan Michalek Thomas Hickey 2009 3rd Rd Waiver To San Jose: Chris Pronger 2009 Keeper Slot Brett Sterling To San Jose: 26th Overall Prospect pick Patrice Bergeron 2008 1st Round Prospect ( San Jose) To San Jose: Keeper Slot 2008 1st Round Prospect ( Winnipeg) I accept. Rostislav Olesz Tomas Plekanec To San Jose: 2010 1st Round Prospect Pick I accept. Fedor Tyutin To San Jose: 2008 5th Round Waiver I accept. The bottom line is you should stop distorting facts in attempt to make yourself out to be some sort of pious individual valiantly defending the honor of the league, all the while trying to manipulate the rules to slant things in your favor. I find it very ironic that you would be criticizing me for needing to show "more respect." I have had more complaints about you personally from league members throughout the years than all the other GM's combined (Low-ball offers, disrespectful attitude, nit-picking etc.). People have even called for your removal. But you know what? I defended you and wouldn't even entertain the idea because not only are you my friend of over 15 years but you bring a much-needed element to the league. I don't believe everyone should be "nice" all the time, and the differences of opinion promote conversation which ultimately leads to growth. So if you felt personally attacked, then I apologize. It was "just business." But if at certain critical points in this leagues history I didn't have a "dictator" mentality, the league would not be what it is today and most likely you would not still be a GM. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes that not everyone is aware of. I have spent countless hours thinking about this league and how to continually improve it. The GM's have trusted me to do that for over 12 years with overall resounding success, and I am going to need you to trust me once more when I say that trading minor leaguers between farm teams without testing waivers is not a good idea and does not promote parity in the league.
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Post by Tyler - Jets on Nov 30, 2018 16:42:39 GMT -5
Mic drop
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Post by Tyler - Jets on Nov 30, 2018 16:44:18 GMT -5
Also I recalled Koskinen already because Talbot has some deep splinters in his ass from riding pine. I need goalie starts.
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Post by Tyler - Jets on Nov 30, 2018 16:47:15 GMT -5
I say let’s trust commish here. The rules should be amended to properly state minor leaguer trading specifications.
Nos and Derrick thank you for hashing this out. I know you go at each other with the leagues best interest at heart. It’s appreciated how much effort you guys truly put in!!
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Nov 30, 2018 20:02:42 GMT -5
Dude, really? Trades are trades, I'm not forcing anybody's hand, certain things look better with age applied than others. It's part of the game. Many of those trades you posted look great for other managers and/or couldn't be deciphered at the time value wise, you also fail to post up several other key trades such as the P.K. Subban trade, the Vincent Trocheck Trade, the Ben Bishop Trade, etc. which just further illustrates your lack of objective thinking and it shows your ability to have an agenda that clouds your judgement. What, we're to believe you just skipped over those ones accidentally? Right. Posting up a bunch of old trades that everybody can already see historically doesn't make an argument. It's lazy. Words make an argument and you've failed to give any meaningful defense of the rule in question or defense of your my way or the highway attitude. It's just another means of making trades, I don't even care about it one way or another yet you still see a change you didn't expect and believe it will be detrimental, why? Why do you believe your opinion should hold more weight than the rest of the league? These are questions you can't answer in any positive way.
Furthermore, and I've said this before, anybody who has actually called for my removal is a loser, period. I've put more into this league than anybody else and have played by the rules to a T, have always shown respect to the league and its processes and have always had the league's best interest in mind, unlike so many others. So stop using that against me like it's some sort of leverage, it isn't. To be perfectly honest I've had several complains about you running around like a dictator, refusing to stick by the written rules, telling everybody else they're wrong for feeling the way they do even if it's an overwhelming response, it's left a sour taste in many people's mouths, but you know what? I've defended you. At the end of the day turnover happens regardless, whether you have the option to trade a minor leaguer farm to farm or not. You fail to acknowledge the real point I was making in that typically a 1st Round Waiver pick was traded for a Keeper Slot and you've plainly seen how much talent could be had for the exchange of a scrub player. I don't know how you can argue for keeping an inferior player when you have the chance to improve. Fantasy Hockey 101, get rid of the weak and replace with superior assets by any means necessary. It doesn't matter who the other manager keeps, the weaker team is getting better and for the long haul rather than one year.
Tyler, why do you say trust the Commissioner now? Doesn't it make more sense to trust the league as a collective? That's how the league has been built. More opinions than that of one man and one perspective. That's like saying trust Donald Trump and not the people.
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Post by Tyler - Jets on Dec 1, 2018 0:14:27 GMT -5
I will listen to the league. Anyone could speak up a little anytime so we can actually see what league opinion is.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 1, 2018 2:46:38 GMT -5
Well, this is where we're at without all the extracurricular nonsense...
01. This poll illustrates that the league has agreed that the rules state farm to farm transactions, without going through Waivers, are legal.
02. With the overwhelming (from Derrick anyway) opposition to this a new poll should be opened to decide on an amendment of the rulebook.
03. This Mikko Koskinen poll does not reflect the league's opinion on this matter, it just illustrates an agreement of what the rules are.
Simple.
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Post by Jacob - Wild on Dec 3, 2018 19:36:16 GMT -5
I second a new poll to be opened in deciding if an amendment to the rules should be made so farm to farm transactions are made possible.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 5, 2018 14:49:00 GMT -5
We can address this issue during the off-season. For now, the Koskinen trade to the farm has been allowed and we will continue to operate under the understood/unwritten rule that no minor league player may be traded directly to the farm.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 5, 2018 21:21:53 GMT -5
Explain to me how something that is unwritten can be 'understood'? Why did you create this poll in the first place if your decision on the matter was unmovable? To waste everybody's time? Precedent has been set by this poll and that was a wishy washy response to it.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 5, 2018 21:45:31 GMT -5
Explain to me how something that is unwritten can be 'understood'? Something is ‘understood’ if a group of individuals collectively operate under a certain notion without it being written. I've always been under the notion that minor leaguers are automatically assigned to a teams main roster once traded I created this poll because I made a mistake in not including the written rule last time I updated the rule book. After discovering this I wanted to be transparent with the league and fair to the participants in the trade. The fact that this is the first time in 6 years that this has been an issue should be telling enough as to the ‘understood’ nature of the rule under which the league has operated. No precednt has been set with this poll. It was an isolated poll pertaining to an isolated incident. And so not to detract from the excitement of the regular season and put anybody at a disadvantage, all talk about any rule change, this one included, is best kept to the off-season. |
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 5, 2018 22:58:22 GMT -5
Explain to me how something that is unwritten can be 'understood'? Something is ‘understood’ if a group of individuals collectively operate under a certain notion without it being written. I've always been under the notion that minor leaguers are automatically assigned to a teams main roster once traded I created this poll because I made a mistake in not including the written rule last time I updated the rule book. After discovering this I wanted to be transparent with the league and fair to the participants in the trade. The fact that this is the first time in 6 years that this has been an issue should be telling enough as to the ‘understood’ nature of the rule under which the league has operated. No precednt has been set with this poll. It was an isolated poll pertaining to an isolated incident. And so not to detract from the excitement of the regular season and put anybody at a disadvantage, all talk about any rule change, this one included, is best kept to the off-season. Understanding is built behind tangible evidence, written word, just because the league operated incorrectly or without awareness doesn't mean something was 'understood', rather it was misunderstood. Isolated poll? Isolated incident? Kind of like the Steve Mason Games Played/Games Started poll, right? Best kept to the off-season? So delay, delay, delay. Then when it's time, get nothing done. Got it. |
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The vote in that thread still sits 6-5 to this day, with a necessary 8-4 for a legal rule change to take place. Here's what my roster looked like that year...
So exciting.
You better make that pick or trade it! I'm excited to see if we can use up all the draft picks this year.