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Post by Colin - Avalanche on Feb 4, 2024 16:20:15 GMT -5
Byfield to farm. Colton can be removed from my farm roster as he hit 200 GP and was signed elsewhere. Oh wow, he wasnt over 200 games? So he should be on suspended waivers. Sorry about that, I honestly thought he was way over the 200 game mark to start the year, didn't even think to check for his name. I'll drop him |
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Post by Robyn - Flames on Feb 4, 2024 17:39:28 GMT -5
No he became a free agent 36-37 games ago. He was just never updated on my farm roster. I think you're good to keep him.
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Feb 7, 2024 16:38:13 GMT -5
Oh wow, he wasnt over 200 games? So he should be on suspended waivers. Sorry about that, I honestly thought he was way over the 200 game mark to start the year, didn't even think to check for his name. I'll drop him Yes, this is correct. Ross Colton had 190 NHL games played prior to the start of this season and was on Robyn's farm team. I don't believe Robyn ever made a farm transactions post releasing him. So Ross Colton has been lost to Suspended Waivers this season. |
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Feb 8, 2024 0:53:30 GMT -5
Oh wow, he wasnt over 200 games? So he should be on suspended waivers. Sorry about that, I honestly thought he was way over the 200 game mark to start the year, didn't even think to check for his name. I'll drop him Yes, this is correct. Ross Colton had 190 NHL games played prior to the start of this season and was on Robyn's farm team. I don't believe Robyn ever made a farm transactions post releasing him. So Ross Colton has been lost to Suspended Waivers this season. Correct. Colton has been lost to suspended waivers. There is no record on the forum of Robyn - Flames calling him up. Additionally I checked the activity log and there does not appear to be any deleted post calling up Colton. This is a recurring issue and becoming increasingly problematic. I have advocated in the past for the previously occupied roster spot of the player lost to suspended waivers to be forfeited for the duration of the season. Perhaps it is time to revisit that discussion. |
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Feb 8, 2024 2:42:27 GMT -5
Yes, this is correct. Ross Colton had 190 NHL games played prior to the start of this season and was on Robyn's farm team. I don't believe Robyn ever made a farm transactions post releasing him. So Ross Colton has been lost to Suspended Waivers this season. Correct. Colton has been lost to suspended waivers. There is no record on the forum of Robyn - Flames calling him up. Additionally I checked the activity log and there does not appear to be any deleted post calling up Colton. This is a recurring issue and becoming increasingly problematic. I have advocated in the past for the previously occupied roster spot of the player lost to suspended waivers to be forfeited for the duration of the season. Perhaps it is time to revisit that discussion. I agree, I'm on board with this. It would be nice to also hammer out the details as well on when a player loses Minor League status when we have the time too. 👍 |
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Post by Robyn - Flames on Feb 8, 2024 9:42:30 GMT -5
So I was supposed to make a post releasing him when he lost minor league status?
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Post by Robyn - Flames on Feb 8, 2024 10:28:13 GMT -5
There's a lot of confusion in the rulebook. Section 4 mentions Suspended Waivers, but there's also a definition that differs or isn't captured in the original section.
So for Ross Colton, I had 3 options:
1. Recall at 200 GP and add to main roster
2. Release at 200 GP and he becomes a free agent for anyone to sign
3. Do nothing at 200 GP and he is lost to suspended waivers for the season so no one else can pick him up
I didn't want him on the Flames this season or else I would have called him up before 200 GP or at the start of the season. I assumed he would be automatically a free agent at 200-201 GP and be available for anyone to sign.
So what's the actual purpose of suspended waivers vs a player just becoming a free agent? It seems it could be taken advantage of to shield players from other teams for a season no?
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Feb 8, 2024 18:36:26 GMT -5
There's a lot of confusion in the rulebook. Section 4 mentions Suspended Waivers, but there's also a definition that differs or isn't captured in the original section. So for Ross Colton, I had 3 options: 1. Recall at 200 GP and add to main roster 2. Release at 200 GP and he becomes a free agent for anyone to sign 3. Do nothing at 200 GP and he is lost to suspended waivers for the season so no one else can pick him up I didn't want him on the Flames this season or else I would have called him up before 200 GP or at the start of the season. I assumed he would be automatically a free agent at 200-201 GP and be available for anyone to sign. So what's the actual purpose of suspended waivers vs a player just becoming a free agent? It seems it could be taken advantage of to shield players from other teams for a season no? You haven't done anything wrong, we've been operating this way up until this point, so no harm no foul. I think what we should be trying to avoid is what you already said that "It could be taken advantage of to shield players from other teams for a season". That's why there should be some sort of punishment like Derrick suggested of forfeiting the roster spot where the Suspended played occupied. Whether that be on your farm team or farm farm team.
You could make the argument that after the 200-201 GP they automatically be entered into the free agent pool, but then that just creates the "fastest hands in the west" scenario where whoever is quickest to add them off of Yahoo gets the player (like how free agent signings occur at the first puck drop of the season opener). Having them enter Suspended Waivers gives everyone a fair shake at potentially drafting them in the Waiver Draft. I think as General Managers we should all be held responsible to the players on our rosters and have their fates in our own hands. If you have a player you don't want that is about to lose Minor Leaguer eligibility you should release them. |
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Feb 8, 2024 18:41:04 GMT -5
For a little more context, from what I can gather, there's a few different instances in the rulebook where Suspended Waivers applies. So I'll just quote the rulebook below to bring these to light again.
1. C) At no point during the season or offseason may a team exceed the maximum roster limit for its rosters. If a team is found in violation of this rule, the player or players in violation will be placed on suspended waivers.
2. D) Once players on the farm team no longer meet the minor leaguer or prospect requirements they are automatically released to the free agent pool where they will be placed on suspended waivers.
3. E) Transactions of players who cannot clear waivers due to the fantasy seasons ending will result in the forfeiture of that player(s). These players will be placed on suspended waivers.
4. F) Failure to specify a farm transaction in a farm transactions thread within 24 hours of the transaction will result in the player or players being forfeited to suspended waivers.
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Post by Chris - Capitals on Feb 9, 2024 10:44:09 GMT -5
I've never liked the whole suspended waivers deal in that they just disappear for the season. Not sure how we get around that if we're worried about the "fastest hands in the west" scenario so I suppose it's fine to wait until the waiver draft. I do however like the idea of forfeiting a roster spot on the farm team the ineligible player was left on. This would force the GMs hand in moving him in a deal and could potentially cause some trade action. However, out right releasing said player would also fall back into the "fastest hands in the west" scenario when the player hit the wire.
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Feb 9, 2024 15:38:25 GMT -5
However, out right releasing said player would also fall back into the "fastest hands in the west" scenario when the player hit the wire. I could've elaborated a little better in my original post, but the part where I mention that at least the fate of our players is in the GMs hands, allows us to determine when we release players. It is still technically "the fastest hands in the west", but nobody knows exactly when our peers is going to release a player. It could be a few games before they reach 200, or at any time, so at least this would promote forum activity of checking in on farm transactions more frequently. |
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Feb 10, 2024 13:02:14 GMT -5
However, out right releasing said player would also fall back into the "fastest hands in the west" scenario when the player hit the wire. I could've elaborated a little better in my original post, but the part where I mention that at least the fate of our players is in the GMs hands, allows us to determine when we release players. It is still technically "the fastest hands in the west", but nobody knows exactly when our peers is going to release a player. It could be a few games before they reach 200, or at any time, so at least this would promote forum activity of checking in on farm transactions more frequently. I don't think this is as a relevant as it is being made out to be. A player being released at or near the expiration of Minor Leaguer status would have to be rostered on the main team by a GM who signed him. No responsible GM should be releasing a player from the farm who can actively contribute to a main roster. It is much more likely that a player being released is released because they are not able to contribute, in which case there should not be much demand or a "fastest hands in the west" scenario that arises. |
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Post by Chris - Capitals on Feb 11, 2024 12:03:39 GMT -5
I could've elaborated a little better in my original post, but the part where I mention that at least the fate of our players is in the GMs hands, allows us to determine when we release players. It is still technically "the fastest hands in the west", but nobody knows exactly when our peers is going to release a player. It could be a few games before they reach 200, or at any time, so at least this would promote forum activity of checking in on farm transactions more frequently. I don't think this is as a relevant as it is being made out to be. A player being released at or near the expiration of Minor Leaguer status would have to be rostered on the main team by a GM who signed him. No responsible GM should be releasing a player from the farm who can actively contribute to a main roster. It is much more likely that a player being released is released because they are not able to contribute, in which case there should not be much demand or a "fastest hands in the west" scenario that arises. That's fair and honestly I hadn't even thought it through other than what was being said. But you're right in that these players that would end up getting out right released probably aren't players that others would be chomping at the bit to sign. |
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Feb 11, 2024 14:08:31 GMT -5
Yeah, exactly. GMs would more so be chomping at the bit in the scenario if they knew they could sign a player a manager didnt realize was about to hit the 200-201 GP and was going to be automatically entered into the free agent pool. That's why Suspended Waivers seems necessary, even though in a perfect world no player ideally would become one.
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Post by Colin - Avalanche on Feb 12, 2024 12:54:51 GMT -5
Yeah, exactly. GMs would more so be chomping at the bit in the scenario if they knew they could sign a player a manager didnt realize was about to hit the 200-201 GP and was going to be automatically entered into the free agent pool. That's why Suspended Waivers seems necessary, even though in a perfect world no player ideally would become one. But isn't that where it could be fun and the point of the discussion? I'm not sure why we try to avoid the fastest hands scenario. We already have one at the start of the season with player signings. But also players can play themselves into relevancy. So it sucks if someone's lost to suspended waivers just becasue he was allowed to be, or forgot about. Colton for example becomes intriguing with a Mackinnon injury. Someone may want tolvanen on a rebuilding team, who knows. Expanding on what Robyn said, An easy scenario I'm a playoff team that has a young developing player about to hit 201 games. Maybe not good enough for their team but worth a flyer that could play his way into a keeper spot. I'd rather let him go to suspended waivers than release him or even trade him. Yes, it's rare but something anyone of us would do in that scenario I just don't see what's bad about allowing those players become free agents. It's not always about fastest hands. |
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Post by Robyn - Flames on Feb 12, 2024 16:42:02 GMT -5
My vote is to allow them to become free agents at 200-201 GP . Rewards managers that track that sort of thing.
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Feb 12, 2024 17:20:21 GMT -5
I wouldn't say I'm against what Colin and Robyn are suggesting. But before we can even continue this discussion we would really need to finally settle the exact moment a player loses Minor League eligibility first and foremost. I think it totally rewards managers that track that sort of thing. I just noted that Derrick saw that there was a recurring issue that was becoming increasingly problematic with a rule we already had in place and he offered a solution which I didn't have a problem with. I can definitely see both sides of the coin. Expanding on what Robyn said, An easy scenario I'm a playoff team that has a young developing player about to hit 201 games. Maybe not good enough for their team but worth a flyer that could play his way into a keeper spot. I'd rather let him go to suspended waivers than release him or even trade him. If you chose to do this with what Derrick is trying to suggest you would lose a roster spot on which ever farm team the player clocked over on. I'm assuming you guys would also be OK with if your farm farm player clocked over 25 games played they would also become free agents? Or would they be delegated to Suspended Waivers and this is only for players that are losing Minor League eligibility? |
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Post by Colin - Avalanche on Feb 13, 2024 14:52:22 GMT -5
I wouldn't say I'm against what Colin and Robyn are suggesting. But before we can even continue this discussion we would really need to finally settle the exact moment a player loses Minor League eligibility first and foremost. I think it totally rewards managers that track that sort of thing. I just noted that Derrick saw that there was a recurring issue that was becoming increasingly problematic with a rule we already had in place and he offered a solution which I didn't have a problem with. I can definitely see both sides of the coin. Expanding on what Robyn said, An easy scenario I'm a playoff team that has a young developing player about to hit 201 games. Maybe not good enough for their team but worth a flyer that could play his way into a keeper spot. I'd rather let him go to suspended waivers than release him or even trade him. If you chose to do this with what Derrick is trying to suggest you would lose a roster spot on which ever farm team the player clocked over on. I'm assuming you guys would also be OK with if your farm farm player clocked over 25 games played they would also become free agents? Or would they be delegated to Suspended Waivers and this is only for players that are losing Minor League eligibility? Yeah it could or dare say should benefit managers that track that kind of thing, isn't that part of the mechanics of this league? Tracking players etc? I think it adds to the fun, and I'm all for that. It also avoids having to know who's available and who is not via suspended waivers. If they're over 200 games and not on a roster, theyre available. As for the game mark, I don't see why I can't wait till day of before the 201st game starts to call up a player. Once the game starts according to NHL rules, he's played that game. The fact it takes yahoo a day to process shouldn't influence the real time transaction because the rule isn't a yahoo based rule. It's a real life games played rule. There is nothing in the rule book that says yahoo transaction time affects calling up a player in term of games played. If anything you miss that game. This is how I see it or how I interpret it. Now, I believe it can be avoided all together with same day transactions (a subject for the offseason). It would also help with getting teams to 3 goalie starts. There's so few playable goalies available in a pinch it's hard if you have injuries or players get benched for weeks. The having predict who will start and when if you're in a bind is a crap shoot. Especially since teams have a more balanced approach for starts. I bring this up because we have had a couple teams have trouble getting 3 starts when that stuff happens the last few years. Even happened again this week. 15 years ago, no problem, starters played more games. Much like a Ridley Grieg clapper to an open net 😂, I just think the game has changed in that respect and we should adjust accordingly. To me, same day transactions solves interpretation debates for multiple rules we have had. And I think less interpretation is best if its possible. Sorry, almost forgot the last part. Yeah I'd be fine if a prospect clocked over 25 games they became a free agent. You missed him, you missed him. Once playoffs start and a player hit the mark in that time, then he's lost to suspended waivers, I mean you can't add anyone anyway so it's redundant I guess but that's an example of where it comes into play. These are just my takes, would love some thoughts from other GMs |
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Post by Colin - Avalanche on Feb 13, 2024 15:17:18 GMT -5
And while I think punishment of losing a roster spot would suck and could be a deterant, it seems pretty harsh for that offense. Not having suspended waivers means no need for a punishment like that and having to track that. Losing the player immediately to a rival is the punishment and if you don't care you don't care. I think avoiding GM specific punishment where possible is good for the league. I'd rather something like, I let a guy go to free agency, he gets hot and Chris - Capitals picks him up in February. Now I'm kicking myself because I didn't see it coming. Where as, I'd be happy he on suspended waiver and no one gets to benefit from my mistake.
Like Mitch - Ducks with Tolvanen. Imagine, he forgot about Tolvanen, someone swoops in, grabs him. And he had a good month there racking up points. We could've been on the chat like
"Omg Mitch you're so dumb, I can't believe you let him hit free agency".
"Yeah Mitch, you're horrible at fantasy wow, your team is dust".
"Are you secretly Brad Treliving?"
"If you think he's bad at fantasy you should see his golf swing!".
I feel like "we" really missed out on chirps like that ...
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Post by Tyler - Jets on Feb 14, 2024 2:07:21 GMT -5
I like the players just becoming free agents. Pass the limits players just move into the next phase of availability. Prospects Minor Leaguer Pro ie. Free Agent….
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So exciting.
You better make that pick or trade it! I'm excited to see if we can use up all the draft picks this year.