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Post by Derrick - Senators on Sept 25, 2006 13:46:55 GMT -5
Over the past few weeks i have had suggestions/complaints about some of the rules. I too feel that some need to be changed/added to make the league better. These things need to be debated and made clear before the start of the season in just a little over a week.
First off, the number of keepers. 10 seems to be the number of keepers that some would like instead of 12. What's the general concensus on that? do you feel 12 is too many? 10 suits your more? explain. With 12 keepers, 84 players would go back in the pool to be drafted in next years "waiver draft." 10 keepers: 108 players. also note, so that there isnt any confusion, a keeper slot is only good for the following year in which you trade for it. Itd be unfair if someone were to just stocking up year after year until they could keep their whole team.
Secondly, in order to keep the league and managers active during the end of the season/playoffs, its been decided that the winner of the "consolation (losers) bracket will be awarded the #1 pick in the waiver draft. runner up, the 2nd pick, 3rd place the third pick and so on and so on.
#1 - Winner of the Consolation Bracket
#2 - Runner-Up Consolation Bracket
#3 - 3rd Place Consolation Bracket
#4 - 4th Place Consolation Bracket
#5 - 5th Place Consolation Bracket
#6 - Last Place Consolation Bracket
#7 - Last Place Winner's Bracket
#8 - 5th Place Winner's Bracket
#9 - 4th Place Winner's Bracket
#10 - 3rd Place Winner's Bracket
#11- League Runner - Up
#12 - League Champion
The waiver draft will be a serpentine draft. However, the prospect draft will not be. It will simulate real life rules. 1-12...1-12....1-12 etc. This draft will be determined by the final standings at the end of the year. For instance, the last place team gets the 1st overall pick, 2nd to last, 2nd overall pick and so on.
#1 - Last place
#2 - 11th overall in the standings
#3 - 10th overall
#4 - 9th overall
#5 - 8th overall
#6 - 7th overall
#7 - 6th overall
#8 - 5th overall
#9 - 4th overall
#10 - 3rd overall
#11 - 2nd overall
#12 - Regular Season Champion
Last but not least, the minor suggestions that will all be clumped together. Some feel that the stat categories are too much in favor for the "offense" or skaters. (8 offensive categories to 4 goalie categories.) How does everyone feel about that? Another thing that probably wont be able to be changed or altered until next off season is the request for a salary cap or something of the likes. (although its good to discuss.) With a salary cap (or something like it) it would make managing your team a lot more fun and open up TONS more trading possibilities and scenarios. this way older players have some value, players with lower salaries have value and of course, superstars still have value. Once again, this and the stat modifications probably wont even be thought about until next off season because everyone has already drafted their team but its something to think about. Itd give the manager an entire offseason to get down to the designated cap, trade away their high salaries...or whatever it takes to get their team ready.
Nothing is set in stone yet, but this thread is a central place for everyone to voice their opinion and suggest what they would like to see done. we need to get this thing set and finalized before the star of the season so....what does everyone think? feel free to discuss anyting, not just those topics at hand because i might have forgotten some things.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Sept 25, 2006 14:42:01 GMT -5
First off, you didn't give me credit for my idea.  Second, you fucked up my idea, the winner's bracket should look like this: #07 - Champion #08 - Runner Up #09 - Third #10 - Fourth #11 - Fifth #12 - Sixth That way the champion is actually rewarded with something half way decent for winning the league, instead of being stuck with both #12 picks in each draft. Also, won't the prospect draft go: 1-12...12-1...1-12 Right? Back and forth? Instead you listed 1-12...1-12...1-12. I know they're doing this now in the real NHL, but it's kind of terrible, and I think it's a mistake on their part, it's especially bad for a 12 team league. But whatever, I can live with both ways, just making sure you didn't make a typo. 10 keepers is fine by me, it makes the waiver draft more important in the off season. An added goaltending category would be nice in the off season. 8-5 categories is more attractive and equal. Or take away an offensive category and make it 7-4. Having an odd number of categories would also eliminate a lot of ties, unless you actually tie the same category. Lastly, a salary cap is a terrible idea, especially for a 12 team league. The cap would have to be like $80-$100 million (making up for the fact there aren't 30 teams at $44 million a pop, the talent pool is larger in a 12 team league) and I don't see the point in that. Maybe in a few years after we've established ourselves. Good thread, glad we can work this stuff out before the season actually begins. If I think of anything else I'll post it. |
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Andrew
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Posts: 320
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Post by Andrew on Sept 25, 2006 15:16:53 GMT -5
I don't exactly like the 07-08 draft orders. There needs to be some sort of reward in place for the league champion (playoff champ definitely, and probably make a reward for season champ as well since this league is H2H). It just doesn't make sense that we're rewarding the teams that finish last, and we're rewarding them in both drafts. NOS's suggestion for the waiver draft would clear that up pretty nicely, but I dislike the idea mentioned for the prospect draft, even if it is similar to the NHL. If anything, I suggest we hold a draft lottery instead, just so the lower end teams don't throw their seasons (seriously, it could happen) and it at least gives the higher placed teams a shot at a good pick. Or maybe award the top placed season and playoff team a keeper slot (or two if that happens to be the same team). Serpentine draft is also my preference for both drafts. Salary cap is a great idea, but I think it's too late to do that now that we've already drafted. Maybe at the end of the season, we can find out the number of people that are going to stick, and have a poll if we want to do this. I'd be up for it though. If I didn't know better, I'd say the Muffin Man is second guessing his team  . Cutting down the number of keepers, placing better draft positions for weaker placed teams, there's really no reward at all for the top placed teams, and I'm not a fan of that idea since I plan to be one of them. |
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Sept 25, 2006 16:03:52 GMT -5
If I didn't know better, I'd say the Muffin Man is second guessing his team . Cutting down the number of keepers, placing better draft positions for weaker placed teams, there's really no reward at all for the top placed teams, and I'm not a fan of that idea since I plan to be one of them. like i said, nothing is set in stone, thats why this thread was created. i want to get a feel for what everyone likes and thinks is fair. Discussing "rewards" is a good thing too, but isnt winning the championship enough reward? maybe an extra keeper for the following year? maybe a real trophy? who knows, keep discussing. as far as your last comment goes, every single one of these rule modifications works against me. i have to bring them up at the request of the league you silly goat. |
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Post by Phil - Blue Jackets on Sept 25, 2006 20:54:53 GMT -5
I brought up the draft order. In the original rules, ya know the rules you were supposed to read before joining this league, it says that in EACH draft besides the farm and inagural, the last place team will have the first pick in EVERY round. Simply put, the waiver and prospect draft orders after season one will be 1-12,1-12,1-12,etc. I also suggested that the 12th draft position be the league champion in all drafts. The reward for winning the league is exactly that; winning the championship. By all means, to whomever wins this league, give me the championship and I'll give you all my picks.
There has to be light at the end of the tunnel for weaker teams. Otherwise, they would simply quit or go inactive since nothing is at stake i.e. a monetary prize. This applies to several issues including those mentioned earlier. One such consideration is the number of keepers. I would be happy with 8 keepers or 15 keepers and include your entire roster. More specifically, 8 keepers would be adequate if we still automatically got our entire farm team. 15 keepers would be interesting as well if we were to choose 15 from our entire roster, regular and farm. Even with these few keepers, your team's core would remain intact and one would still get rewarded for having a better team overall.
In a league with 12 keepers, a manager is basically keeping his entire squad. The remaining spots can be attributed to players of waiver wire caliber or those you simply wont lose sleep about losing, especially when you can simply draft again from the same pool during the waiver draft. This is yet another issue that deals with weaker teams. Invariably, there are going to be unforseen circumstances. These can include but are not limited to a player not performing as expected(how many people would have drafed st louis in the first or second round of a keeper last year?) or a player dying(incurring an injury that either ends their career or severly hampers what might have been). These are very real possibilities, and in the interest of fairness, a manager should not be punished for one of these circumstances for the duration of the league.
A salary cap would help to avoid this problem as teams would have to often change their teams as their players make more money. However, with a salary cap, players that would normally be welcome on a fantasy squad might rot on the waiver wire.
All of these issues will have to sorted out with extensive league discussion. Some of the changes need to be resolved quickly i.e. stat cat alterations or additions, but some will inevitably need to be implemented during the offseason.
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Post by Mark - Bruins on Sept 25, 2006 23:43:47 GMT -5
Phil brings up a lot of good points. With 12 keepers, you hold onto a lot of your players from last year. It seems like it would be pretty easy for a team to take hold of a dynasty because there is no major way for other teams to drastically improve themselves except via a one-sided trade. A salary cap seems to be an interesting idea. That or reducing the # of non-prospect keepers.
I really think that the prospect draft should go 1-12, 1-12, etc. since not only does it follow NHL rules, but it makes it help the worst teams the most.
I like the Derrick/Nos proposal of making the waiver draft. It rewards teams for being competitive while also not completely screwing over the bad teams.
EDIT:: I think yahoo allows you to change what stats are counted as long as its before the start of the season.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Sept 26, 2006 1:02:15 GMT -5
Why do you guys like the salary cap idea? To me it would be more of a headache than anything else. Basically a superfluous addition to the league when everything will run about the same either way. There might be a few more trades and that, but I like the idea of creating a team identity. Maybe it could be something to think about in a few years, but not right now. Let's get this league off the ground first.
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Post by Mark - Bruins on Sept 26, 2006 14:21:54 GMT -5
Why do you guys like the salary cap idea? To me it would be more of a headache than anything else. Basically a superfluous addition to the league when everything will run about the same either way. There might be a few more trades and that, but I like the idea of creating a team identity. Maybe it could be something to think about in a few years, but not right now. Let's get this league off the ground first. Its an interesting idea to toy with, but I don't think we have to implement it right away. Besides, I don't think you have to worry about "team identity" since you can keep virtually your entire starting rosters from year to year. |
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Sept 28, 2006 1:23:52 GMT -5
That's fair enough. It's an "interesting" idea, but needless at this point in time, in my opinion.
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Andrew
Second Liner
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Posts: 320
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Post by Andrew on Sept 28, 2006 13:38:13 GMT -5
If we wanted to throw in the salary cap for next season, I think the best way to go about that would be to cut the number of keepers down drastically to about 5-8 and hold a huge waiver draft then and just let everyone reassemble their team to fit into the salary restriction.
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Post by Mark - Bruins on Sept 28, 2006 14:09:50 GMT -5
I really don't think a salary cap is necessary just because it can get messy trying to keep track of all the numbers (we aren't using a video game or computer simulator). If we were to change anything at all, I think I'd rather just have fewer keepers because it makes them all the more special and it makes the waiver draft actually have meaning.
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Post by canucksgm on Sept 28, 2006 23:45:53 GMT -5
I really don't think a salary cap is necessary just because it can get messy trying to keep track of all the numbers (we aren't using a video game or computer simulator). If we were to change anything at all, I think I'd rather just have fewer keepers because it makes them all the more special and it makes the waiver draft actually have meaning. yah i agree |
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Post by patriot0103 on Sept 29, 2006 11:54:45 GMT -5
To be honest, I would also like to avoid the salary cap idea, simply because I have one in one of my leagues, and it is quite a headache, it can be done but it is a pain in the ass.
My other opinion is that we should not change the number of keepers at least for now, because that changes things big team. You could argue that I am only saying this, because a lower number of keepers would hurt my time, and you're right to some extent. I drafted extremely young, because of the fact that we were going to have so many keepers. Changing this after the draft seems unfair to me, because my entire strategy would have been different if the number of keepers was lower.
Seriously though, I don't understand how it is fair to change the number of keepers after the draft, considering how much that plays into draft strategy.
Oh, and also this background sucks lol, when the Sabres win the cup next year, I better see them up there haha
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Sept 29, 2006 12:24:31 GMT -5
To be honest, I would also like to avoid the salary cap idea, simply because I have one in one of my leagues, and it is quite a headache, it can be done but it is a pain in the ass. My other opinion is that we should not change the number of keepers at least for now, because that changes things big team. You could argue that I am only saying this, because a lower number of keepers would hurt my time, and you're right to some extent. I drafted extremely young, because of the fact that we were going to have so many keepers. Changing this after the draft seems unfair to me, because my entire strategy would have been different if the number of keepers was lower. Seriously though, I don't understand how it is fair to change the number of keepers after the draft, considering how much that plays into draft strategy. Oh, and also this background sucks lol, when the Sabres win the cup next year, I better see them up there haha I can agree with that. I'm all for it all staying the same, but some potential "problems" have been brought up. how are the weaker teams to get better? thats what a few people are asking.i personally feel that 84 starting roster players going back in the pool to be drafted in the waiver draft will make a difference. couple that with their prospects drafted this year who could be ready, and any prospects they pick up next year as well. There are of course the fantasy intangibles that you can't account for but work toward weaker teams during the season as well. Calling up/sending down.....injuries...."breakout" players.... granted, this isnt the "one season wonder" that weaker teams are hoping for, but thats not how its supposed to be. if you have a weak team you have to rebuild it, work at it. I can't think of a more ridiculous concept for a keeper league than that. A bottom feeder one year, fighting for the championship the next, all because others that have molded/drafted their team have to give up all their players each year to the waiver draft. whats the point? seems like a one year league thats just titled "keeper." Trying to be something it's not, dress it up however you want. "....it's like the story of the hippo. The hippopotamus, he is not born going, "Cool bean, I am a hippo." No way, José. So he tried to paint the stripe on himself to be like the zebra........but he fool no one. And then he tried to put the spot on his skin to be like the leopard.........but everyone know.......he is a hippo. So at certain point, he look himself in the mirror, and he just say,"Hey, I am a hippopotamus, and there is nothing I can do about it."
And as soon as he accepts this, he live life happy.
.....Happy as a hippo." |
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Post by Phil - Blue Jackets on Sept 29, 2006 17:53:16 GMT -5
Fine. Fuck it. I could give a damn. Keep the rules the same, whatever. I was suggesting minor changes mostly because i didn't draft my fucking team. Fuck my team. Who wants to sit around and hope for a "breakout" candidate to breakout? Who wants to sit around and pin their chances of winning to an injury to another team. That sucks. I currently have two fucking players that i can count on. Woo fucking hoo.
I guess seeing how both the good teams and the sucky teams want the rules to stay the same, keep them. This shit is depressing. I'll keep my team up to date and go through the motions for this league but I won't be serious about it. Ya know why? Cause my team isn't going to win shit. And until i can make it competitive this league will suck. Most of you will feel the same way here shortly. It'll happen when you get tired of losing and waiting on your supposed "keepers" you fought so hard for to live up to expectations. Meanwhile, the three or four good teams will actually be enjoying themselves. Three cheers for the NAFHL!
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Post by Mark - Bruins on Sept 29, 2006 20:11:15 GMT -5
Fine. Fuck it. I could give a damn. Keep the rules the same, whatever. I was suggesting minor changes mostly because i didn't draft my fucking team. Fuck my team. Who wants to sit around and hope for a "breakout" candidate to breakout? Who wants to sit around and pin their chances of winning to an injury to another team. That sucks. I currently have two fucking players that i can count on. Woo fucking hoo. I guess seeing how both the good teams and the sucky teams want the rules to stay the same, keep them. This shit is depressing. I'll keep my team up to date and go through the motions for this league but I won't be serious about it. Ya know why? Cause my team isn't going to win shit. And until i can make it competitive this league will suck. Most of you will feel the same way here shortly. It'll happen when you get tired of losing and waiting on your supposed "keepers" you fought so hard for to live up to expectations. Meanwhile, the three or four good teams will actually be enjoying themselves. Three cheers for the NAFHL! I completely agree with you that something like this will happen: the good stay good and the bad will be bad. Thats why I suggested having fewer keepers. I'm not saying we can only keep 1 or 2 players, but it is kind of crazy that you are able to keep your entire starting roster (and thats not including any propsects you may have). I'm all for having fewer keeper slots, but a salary cap thing might get too complicated since its a)hard to keep track and b)its too random and unaccountable for fantasy. |
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Sept 29, 2006 21:41:25 GMT -5
Fine. Fuck it. I could give a damn. Keep the rules the same, whatever. I was suggesting minor changes mostly because i didn't draft my fucking team. Fuck my team. Who wants to sit around and hope for a "breakout" candidate to breakout? Who wants to sit around and pin their chances of winning to an injury to another team. That sucks. I currently have two fucking players that i can count on. Woo fucking hoo. I guess seeing how both the good teams and the sucky teams want the rules to stay the same, keep them. This shit is depressing. I'll keep my team up to date and go through the motions for this league but I won't be serious about it. Ya know why? Cause my team isn't going to win shit. And until i can make it competitive this league will suck. Most of you will feel the same way here shortly. It'll happen when you get tired of losing and waiting on your supposed "keepers" you fought so hard for to live up to expectations. Meanwhile, the three or four good teams will actually be enjoying themselves. Three cheers for the NAFHL! you can spend your time crying elsewhere, it doesnt have to be in this league you know? dont come around here disrespecting me or my league, or its members for that matter. |
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Sept 30, 2006 1:40:32 GMT -5
you can spend your time crying elsewhere, it doesnt have to be in this league you know? dont come around here disrespecting me or my league, or its members for that matter. No doubt, that has to be one of the worst outbursts I've seen in this league to date. What's to cry about anyway? If we get 10 keeper slots you can keep: Boyes Heatley Zetterberg Zherdev Liles Markov Corvo Miller Ward Leclaire That's a great start to any keeper team. I understand some of these guys are still prospects that can be put on the farm but the point I'm trying to make is that this is solid as hell. You get a waiver draft next year with 9 picks, you can pick up some prime talent in the waiver draft, not to mention bottom seeded teams get first picks in the prospect draft still, you can pick up a fucking stud in one year. Make your team work, grab picks, make trades, work at it! How did teams in the NHL turn shit around? How about expansion teams like Nashville? They're a powerhouse now, how'd that happen? Did they bitch and moan that it wasn't "fair"? They had it harder than you do, stay committed and enthusiastic or get the hell out. A good manager would be able to make the team you have now a contender, if not this year, the next year or the year after. That's honestly all part of the fun in it. Making it work. Cool it fool.  |
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Post by Phil - Blue Jackets on Sept 30, 2006 4:49:32 GMT -5
Thanks for your little endorsement of my team. I also appreciate the how-to tutorial on fantasy sports. I don't know what i would have done without having that crutch to fall back on. You totally brightened my day.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Sept 30, 2006 5:09:15 GMT -5
Grow up man, all I did was try to give you a positive perspective on the way the league is set up and help you see that your team isn't bad, and if you think it is you can change that with the rules that are already in place. If you knew all these things already you wouldn't have cried like a kid with a skinned knee. There was no need for your outburst. These rules have been in place from the beginning and you knew we'd keep 10 to 12, if you don't like it you can always leave.
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Second, you fucked up my idea, the winner's bracket should look like this:
. Cutting down the number of keepers, placing better draft positions for weaker placed teams, there's really no reward at all for the top placed teams, and I'm not a fan of that idea since I plan to be one of them.
So exciting.
You better make that pick or trade it! I'm excited to see if we can use up all the draft picks this year.