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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 19, 2022 23:06:05 GMT -5
whoever wanted Pasta would likely have a good chance of taking the league. My other reason for this trade was to see what type of reaction it would cause. Did you shop Pastrnak around? Was this the best deal you could get? I certainly wasn't made aware Pastrnak was available and did not see him put on your trade block on the forum. The scope of "whoever wanted Pasta" seems very narrow in that regard. Regardless of whether you were being sarcastic or not, this type of response is not the one anybody is looking for and doesn't lend credibility to this trade.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2022 23:53:13 GMT -5
I can be sarcastic if I want.
Well this bullshit started this am when SJS offered me Laine, Batherson, Hart and his 2023 2nd rd pick
For
Pastrnak,burns and my 2023 1st rd pick. I countered. And the rest is all printed out for the sarcastic and non sarcastic to view
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 20, 2022 2:37:25 GMT -5
This is so funny, you actually vetoed the trade? What grounds do you have to do such a thing? CalGARYcoleman Flames traded Alex Newhook, a player who hasn't shown even close to the same thing Drake Batherson has to this point, Batherson has actually been performing at a point per game clip for a few seasons now and is heating up big time, for Nazem Kardi who outperformed David Pastrnak last season, outranked him, outpointed him PLUS ANOTHER 1st Round Waiver pick next season...for Alex Newhook. What the fuck? I'm giving Batherson and ANOTHER 1st Entry pick. This is a great example of the hypocrisy in this league in regards to anything I do. The hatred, and why? It's because I'm that...damn...good. It's because I'm better than you...and you know it! Your delusional Conveniently Batherson has been in the league 2 years longer than Newhook. But since you think this so much worse lets point some things out for you. I didn't trade Kadri I traded 2 picks. Kadri was selected with the 1st rounder this year if he's a comparable to Pasta why wasn't he kept? Could it be because he had 1 year where he exploded and it was pretty much widely thought he wouldn't replicate those numbers and it was just a perfect storm of a season for him. Batherson through his first 3 seasons after being drafted 99 games 23 goals 30 assists averaging more than 15 mins a game playing in the top 6 in Ottawa. Newhook through his first 3 seasons after being drafted 106 games 20 goals 28 assists averaging less than 14 mins a game playing on the 3rd line in Colorado. You're giving up a young middle of the pack player (at this point) and a pick that'll probably end up being 10-12 range for a top player in the league. Calgary and my trade was 2 1st round waiver picks (so not a top 120 keeper or top 200 prospect) for a prospect player that has put up solid numbers and has been pretty highly regarded over several years. These trades are not the same. Am I really delusional? We know where we stand. It doesn't matter if you didn't trade Kadri, Kadri was acquired with the asset you traded away + another 1st Waiver pick for Newhook alone. Why wasn't Kadri kept? Hell, I don't know, why wasn't Linus Ullmark kept? Or Tage Thompson? That trade will be analyzed again in a couple of years and I guess we'll see if it was a disaster or not. It might not be, I even said it could wind up being an astute trade for you in the long run, but that's based on managers being able to make trades where the value in the development of assets is considered and allowed. I'm not sure what this Batherson & Newhook comparison is for? Batherson is way further along and has proven himself to be a trustworthy upcoming superstar with what he's done over the last two seasons now, seasons you're ignoring but nonetheless are used to evaluate his talent, value and expected future status. Certainly Newhook could turn a corner but it hasn't happened yet, it currently looks really bad, he's regressed and has been given the opportunity to do more with players leaving and getting injured on that team but he hasn't taken hold of the opportunity yet. Batherson is totally on fire. You're right, the trades are not the same. No trade is the same. Using the trade to illustrate just how lopsided trades can be without anyone batting an eye or getting sour over it is what I was showing others by bringing it up. I can be pissed off with a trade and even say some shit about it but I would never veto it unless I thought some fishy bullshit was going on as far as cheating goes. I've veered away from this mentality and just allowed managers to do what they please because at the end of the day, even I know I can do more and do better. It's part of the challenge. Again, Batherson is on fire, poised to take a major step this season. The pick is insanely high at Top 12, beasts are had in the Top 12. The only people who devalue these picks are those who can't consistently evaluate talent. Not a Top 120 Keeper? Really? What about Ullmark & Thompson? Keepers, top Keepers, are found in the Waiver Draft every single year. Newhook is looking bad, I'm sorry, that's just based on what we see now, I'm just giving my own personal opinion and that's all we can do. You obviously think differently and that's cool with me as well, truly I hope for the best with that one. The fuck is this bullshit? Look at who I've gotten in the drafts. Not gonna track them all down? That's because they don't exist. Took a trade from 2007? Then had to find one 5 years later involving me getting Radim Vrbata that you had a problem with? The 3rd Round Entry pick was enough for that bum. Then another, the Stamkos deal, that was beast and another trade where you disregard the depth it gave the other franchise. Stamkos is currently ranked 24th best player and Skinner is ranked 27th best player to go along with Couture who is no slouch and two multi-cat beasts at the time. That trade literally still holds up to this day, 10 years later. Then had to find another one 5 years later that I've already said was a bad trade for me. The Laine & McAvoy trade. He got more than McAvoy as well, including a starting goaltender and a 2nd Round Entry pick. Like I've already said, I will trade Laine for McAvoy straight up today, deal? Better yet, give me back a starting goalie, any starting goalie, and a 2nd Round Entry pick as well. If you really want to be 'fair' that is. Then you post the Pettersson & Liljegren trade, two prospects that were drafted late in the 1st round nearly side by side. The trade was made well before either had done anything at the NHL level and that trade was made by a Canucks fan and a Leafs fan wanting each other's top prospect. This is total nonsense. You realize it's your job to make good trades, right? It's pretty easy, actually you don't make it look very easy, to pick and choose a few trades throughout the almost 20 years we've been active and pull a few 'bad' ones. You realize every single team has made good and bad trades, right? Again, that's part of the challenge.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 20, 2022 9:18:05 GMT -5
The fuck is this bullshit? Look at who I've gotten in the drafts. Not gonna track them all down? That's because they don't exist. Took a trade from 2007? Then had to find one 5 years later involving me getting Radim Vrbata that you had a problem with? The 3rd Round Entry pick was enough for that bum. Then another, the Stamkos deal, that was beast and another trade where you disregard the depth it gave the other franchise. Stamkos is currently ranked 24th best player and Skinner is ranked 27th best player to go along with Couture who is no slouch and two multi-cat beasts at the time. That trade literally still holds up to this day, 10 years later. Then had to find another one 5 years later that I've already said was a bad trade for me. The Laine & McAvoy trade. He got more than McAvoy as well, including a starting goaltender and a 2nd Round Entry pick. Like I've already said, I will trade Laine for McAvoy straight up today, deal? Better yet, give me back a starting goalie, any starting goalie, and a 2nd Round Entry pick as well. If you really want to be 'fair' that is. Then you post the Pettersson & Liljegren trade, two prospects that were drafted late in the 1st round nearly side by side. The trade was made well before either had done anything at the NHL level and that trade was made by a Canucks fan and a Leafs fan wanting each other's top prospect. This is total nonsense. You realize it's your job to make good trades, right? It's pretty easy, actually you don't make it look very easy, to pick and choose a few trades throughout the almost 20 years we've been active and pull a few 'bad' ones. You realize every single team has made good and bad trades, right? Again, that's part of the challenge. Again, you are trying to deflect. I am simply answering your question. You asked why this current trade is causing an uproar. I informed you that it was because you have made a series of trades over the years that have drawn the attention of the league. This is a snapshot of that evidence. It is not me raising concern in these threads, it is other league members. Iām not sure why you continue to try and distort this argument.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 20, 2022 9:28:22 GMT -5
Hi, buddy, you're bringing up bullshit. Garbage that's been expertly refuted. Deflecting what? You brought up 'questionable' trades and I shot that shit down. If Colin doesn't accept my public trade offer you can shut up about that deal forever, alright? Not only that but you can know that your personal evaluation of players is not fact.
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Dec 20, 2022 14:32:15 GMT -5
Derrick, let me ask you this question... Honestly speaking, in your opinion who do you think is going to draw more attention to the league for a "homerun trade"... 1. A Perennial Top Seeded Team. 2. A Perennial Bottom Seeded Team. 3. Doesn't matter, they would garner the exact same attention. It's a pretty simple question, thank you ahead of time for answering it honestly.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 20, 2022 15:45:26 GMT -5
Derrick, let me ask you this question... Honestly speaking, in your opinion who do you think is going to draw more attention to the league for a "homerun trade"... 1. A Perennial Top Seeded Team. 2. A Perennial Bottom Seeded Team. 3. Doesn't matter, they would garner the exact same attention. It's a pretty simple question, thank you ahead of time for answering it honestly. The issue isnāt as simple as top-seeded teams vs. bottom-seeded teams like you are trying to reduce it to. The issue is that the trade, at the very least, needs to have a reasonable train of thought that can be followed and quantified for the team who is ālosingā the trade regardless of how they are seeded. In this case specifically, there just isnāt one. Even if Batherson were to reach full potential (not guaranteed) in the most ideal situation (not guaranteed) he would be aspiring to be what Pastrnak is right now. Additionally, Batherson can not be kept for free, so itās a downgrade to a keeper slot on top of everything else. Additionally, a player of this caliber should be shopped around to garner maximum value out of the asset, as you and Nos have both bitterly pointed out in the past when other players were moved in trades neither of you were involved in. Agree or disagree? None of these straw man arguments are relevant. We will always be at odds because I care more about the long-term health of the league more than I care about selfish interests that only benefit me regardless of how you or Nos want to frame things. Those who I have spoken with privately about an issues can attest to that. The difference is, I donāt need to celebrated or told how I great I am for upholding my duties of a job I have been trusted to do for 17 years.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2022 16:36:31 GMT -5
Well just call the trade off and quit over analyzing it
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 20, 2022 18:48:55 GMT -5
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 20, 2022 18:55:24 GMT -5
Derrick says the same shit over and over, same words/phrases with zero growth, uses the same excuses, same fear in him when it comes to me, he's a hero and I'm a villain, he cares about the league and I do not, I'm selfish and he's selfless. I'm just making a trade. I'm not making a questionable trade. It's just a trade. I've made good trades and I've made bad trades but mostly they've been fair and even trades slanting more towards me losing more top quality assets than gaining them. All this really shows is the selfishness of the rest of the league wanting the player I got evidenced by how many people have said so and a vendetta against me because I'm the best manager the league has seen with the most success. If Daniel - Canucks congratulated me and wants the trade to go through, that's all you need to know because he's the only manager who has a chance of defeating me this season or in the foreseeable future. No, it's not because he's my brother, he wants to win and he appreciates competition and hard work. You didn't talk to Bob, you didn't give him options he thought were great, that's that.
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Dec 20, 2022 19:41:22 GMT -5
All these nasty/cutthroat threads could be eliminated if we abolished the veto. Like Tyler mentioned earlier, let's end vetoes. If the Commissioner feels there is collusion or a new manager doesn't understand the rulebook, then that's to his discretion.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 21, 2022 5:21:24 GMT -5
Derrick says the same shit over and over, same words/phrases I'm someone who stands for CONSISTENCY. A concept that is VERY hard for you to grasp apparently.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 21, 2022 5:48:48 GMT -5
All this really shows is the selfishness of the rest of the league wanting the player I got evidenced by how many people have said so and a vendetta against me because I'm the best manager the league has seen with the most success. I actually have 132 more fantasy hockey victories than you all-time which makes me the most successful. If Daniel - Canucks congratulated me and wants the trade to go through, that's all you need to know because he's the only manager who has a chance of defeating me this season or in the foreseeable future. I beat you last week. You didn't talk to Bob, you didn't give him options he thought were great, that's that. I didn't talk to Bob, like everyone else in the league didn't talk to Bob, because he made it publicly known that Pastrnak was not available. When and if Pastrnak were to become available the OBVIOUS assumption would be that any competent GM would inform the league (like in the case of Marchand) to field offers so that he could get the most for his asset. If you actually cared about the well-being of the league, or Bob becoming more competitive, you would welcome open bidding and allow him to accept offers from other GM's now that Pastrnak's availability is known. Aside from that, and this is the part that is going to sting the most, but you need to hear it. Again. You being the best manager in the league is downright comedy. There is absolutely ZERO skill in what you do. ZERO SKILL in fleecing new and unsuspecting or otherwise uninformed GM's out of their best players and assets. You have no foresight and are forced to wait until players have established themselves as superstars before dumping your waiver fodder that you can't keep onto other teams for said players in a series of questionable trades. Which is why you have been involved with so many of these discussions over the years, not because you are so great. Far from it. Your M.O. is always the same. It is tired and it is ruining the league. You have no concept of what it means to have morals or integrity and only care about yourself and your precious team that is showing it's weaknesses more and more as each superstar you have previously stolen ages by the week. Go ahead, hurl your insults, threaten everyone in attempt to get your way, but you know that everything I am saying is 100% accurate and that is something that will haunt you every minute of every day on or off the forum regardless of the false bravado you try to present on here. I would tell you it is time for a reality check, but it has been that time for well over a decade now, so something tells me my efforts now will fall on deaf ears. Good day.
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Post by Daniel - Canucks on Dec 21, 2022 6:47:27 GMT -5
Derrick says the same shit over and over, same words/phrases I'm someone who stands for CONSISTENCY. A concept that is VERY hard for you to grasp apparently. ?
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 21, 2022 7:52:34 GMT -5
I actually have 132 more fantasy hockey victories than you all-time which makes me the most successful. You actually have 130 more fantasy hockey victories than me all-time and that's because you've played in many more leagues outside of this one than me. I was talking about success within this league specifically. I have a .712 winning percentage vs. your .710. I have a higher Ratings & Levels score than you. When you compare managers on Yahoo I defeat you in every single category including 1st place finishes, the only category you beat me in is Trophies Won with 16 to my 15 but you've managed 26 total teams to my 18. My recent winning percentage is .771 to your .714. The more you know. No you didn't. You were fortunate in losses, turtled and had 12 extra skater starts. Perfect storm. Things won't be the same in the playoffs. I didn't talk to Bob, like everyone else in the league didn't talk to Bob, because he made it publicly known that Pastrnak was not available. I talked to Bob. I talked to Bob even after he made it publicly known that Pastrnak was not available. I talked to Bob months later after he initially shot me down and gave him an intriguing offer. He countered the offer and I accepted it. If you actually cared about the well-being of the league, or Bob becoming more competitive, you would welcome open bidding and allow him to accept offers from other GM's now that Pastrnak's availability is known. This is a competition. That's what makes the league good. It isn't my job to manage every single team in the league. You and everyone else were free to kick the tires and submit offers. I didn't even make the offer. Bob made the offer and I accepted it. Bob was your hand picked GM hire not mine. I think he's doing a great job in the limited time he's been here, he's made some very good moves including this one. Aside from that, and this is the part that is going to sting the most, but you need to hear it. Again. You being the best manager in the league is downright comedy. There is absolutely ZERO skill in what you do. ZERO SKILL in fleecing new and unsuspecting or otherwise uninformed GM's out of their best players and assets. You have no foresight and are forced to wait until players have established themselves as superstars before dumping your waiver fodder that you can't keep onto other teams for said players in a series of questionable trades. Which is why you have been involved with so many of these discussions over the years, not because you are so great. Far from it. Your M.O. is always the same. It is tired and it is ruining the league. You have no concept of what it means to have morals or integrity and only care about yourself and your precious team that is showing it's weaknesses more and more as each superstar you have previously stolen ages by the week. Go ahead, hurl your insults, threaten everyone in attempt to get your way, but you know that everything I am saying is 100% accurate and that is something that will haunt you every minute of every day on or off the forum regardless of the false bravado you try to present on here. I would tell you it is time for a reality check, but it has been that time for well over a decade now, so something tells me my efforts now will fall on deaf ears. Good day. This was just a tantrum. An embarrassing one. Likely triggered because a lot of what I've said is the flat out truth and you know it. That first part, again, is like you're stuck in 2007. Same thing you said back then. I listed my last 10 NAFHL Entry Drafts and you can see just who I've personally drafted and how integral they are to my team or how great they became and are now on other teams. Out of the 48 total players I own only 8 of them were traded for, the others were either originally drafted by me or signed by me and one of those players (Laine) I'd like to reverse the trade and I've stated so publicly to no response. Why do you think Bob is uninformed? He's kicking ass! Don't push out another good GM. Again, you personally hand picked him for hire. What's ruining the league is your bad attitude and meddling. My team is extremely young. Draisaitl, Rantanen, Barkov, Batherson, Bennett, Ullmark, Jarry, Hart, Kochetkov, Swayman, etc. to name a few, are all drafted by or signed by me. Nothing you've said is accurate and has been proven to be false by facts, something you fail to actually bring to the table, there is no substance in what you say. The definition of my very job as a GM is to do the best I can for my team as is the job of anyone else, it isn't my job to do everybody else's job, everybody can't be exactly the same or equal as it then ceases to be a league and becomes a pointless endeavor, this is a competition. Different teams are in different positions with different ideas of how to build their team in different ways.
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 21, 2022 15:24:10 GMT -5
This perfectly illustrates the severe state of delusion you live in. How can anyone find value in anything you say or have reason to even pay attention after this?
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Post by Derrick - Senators on Dec 21, 2022 16:06:17 GMT -5
This was just a tantrum. An embarrassing one. Likely triggered because a lot of what I've said is the flat out truth and you know it. So let me get this straight. When I criticize your actions (without name-calling I might add), it is an "embarrassing tantrum?" But when you threaten, insult people, and tell everybody how inferior they are to you if they don't agree with your opinions it...isn't? What a cozy existence.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 21, 2022 18:53:34 GMT -5
I'm really glad you took a step back here and kept your response short, even if that means you ignored everything I said yet again. It's an embarrassing tantrum because you're saying things you know are not true but have allowed emotion to get the better of you. At least everything I've said is the truth. I supplied facts that can be checked. We are all different. We should all be trying to do the best we can for our teams without interference from competing managers. When I say I'm better it's backed by facts, numbers, success. Not only that but everybody should think they're the best but in my position I can actually point to how that's accurate thus far. What name calling did I do exactly? I believe I said 'this is pussy shit' or something to that effect, that's because this is frustrating and a waste of my time, I'm not calling you a goober. I called you two cheaters because that's what I believe is happening here. You two have spent your entire existence in this league trying to keep me down when all I've done is follow the rules to the letter and done the best that I can do. In that tantrum you say I have zero skill. You know that isn't true. You say I have no foresight and have to wait for players to become established superstars, you said this after you knew that wasn't the truth as well because you've been told repeatedly who I've actually scouted including one of your current best players and the list of Entry Draft players that are frankly, eye popping. Nobody has had better drafts than me. Nobody. You had this exact same reaction to the Laine trade years ago, you've still said nothing about this, Colin is silent. So it looks like you were wrong about that, right? That was the last time something like this has happened and it's been years. So in the interim, how have I kept things together if I have no skill? I have no concept of morals or integrity? Why? Because I do my best? Because I work hard and explore every avenue to improve? Because I follow the rules? We're all different with different ideas. I love hockey, I love this league and I lo...I'm very fond of you, Derrick.
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Post by Nos - Sharks on Dec 21, 2022 21:59:38 GMT -5
One good thing that came out of all this (other than Batherson becoming famous) is that while looking into past polls I found this one... NAFHL 48 Double D Award (Biggest Bust)... and even though I was angry I laughed out loud. Patrick Marleau, Miikka Kiprusoff & Marian Hossa nominated with Patrick Marleau taking the award! Good stuff, with Jonathan Cheechoo & Joni Pitkanen as honorable mentions! We've gotta bring back some awards! Aaanyway, about to watch Bugs Bunny's Looney Christmas Tales with original commercials from an airing in 1984! Following that up with one of my favorite Christmas traditions with my brother Daniel - Canucks in watching a Christmas Action movie double bill of Lethal Weapon & Die Hard! The reason we're watching Bugs Bunny's Looney Christmas Tales before it is because in Lethal Weapon Riggs is watching it on his TV in his trailer while reminiscing about, and mourning, his deceased wife Victoria Lynn in one of the most emotional and devastating scenes of acting ever committed to film! What are some of your favorite Christmas films? š
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